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Thread: Yet another PC DOWNGRADE in this gen : The Division

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    Angry Yet another PC DOWNGRADE in this gen : The Division

    http://www.kdramastars.com/articles/25958/20140622/the-division-update.htm
    http://whatifgaming.com/the-division...d-a-few-things


    The Division Developer Insider : We already downgraded a few things



    It seems like the
    Snowdrop Engine did not work quite well as Whatifgaming reported that The Division has already been downgraded visually. According to Whatifgaming, a source dev told them that the team has already took out 'quite a lot of screen space reflections from the game' and that the final product will not look as good as its E3 2013 reveal.

    Below is the full email Whatifgaming received.

    "We really loved the reception to the demo we showed on the PC version at E3. Currently as it stands, there is definitely a lot of push coming from publishers to not make the experience so different on consoles as to alienate people into thinking that next generation is not as powerful as PC. This is probably what happened at Ubisoft Montreal. I think that while making stability changes is definitely important, it does not completely obliterate a lot of enhanced rendering applications."

    "Right now we already took out quite a lot of screen space reflections from the game and are working on asset management the best we can given consoles have that great unified memory. Naturally we will also be using online servers and have to produce a synchronization that higher graphics add to the latency so it had to be turned down. To me it still looks good, but not as good as the original reveal. I am sure as we get closer to launch and the actual console versions of the game featuring SD (Snowdrop) that it will start to seem all too obvious to people especially those on PCs. I just wanted to write and let you know that it definitely is not just stability but marketing politics plays into this a lot as well."

    "UPDATED 2nd Response from The Division Developer: Truth be told in regards to your question that while 'Yes' the lead platform is the PC, we simply cannot have such a big gap. As you know when the first WATCH DOGS Review was published by that one site, Ubisoft called it a "false review" and I am sure everyone can see how bad that sounded when they saw the game did look marginally better than something that was a last generation GTA IV. But no, they will not admit that they practice this or actively downgrade a game. It is much easier to say they removed things for stability which is often a lie as you can tell by the post-issues which are expected in any production we do."

    "Also to answer your 3rd question, no...they will never fully disclose what was removed from what build as no laws ask them to do so in terms of consumer rights. If we as developers published that information in very real terms for the consumer such as "Replaced particle fog simulation with 2d layer simulation in 3d space, removed particles from all explosions, lowered explosion volume multiplier by 20x, removed X # of trees and civilians, etc." we would be out of a lot of sales and probably it would actually require too much time to deliver on the current hype that a lot of downgraded games see which look incredible with a vertical slice. I do share this in the hope's that my colleagues and publishers and a lot of people who make false promises and do demonstrations which wrongfully create too much hype that they cannot deliver on ultimately stop doing such things. I want to see the industry actually move forward and not be so full of itself by promising too much and delivering too little. Regards"

    It remains to be seen whether Whatifgaming's report is legit or not. As with Watch_Dogs, this was the same scenario were the E3 reveal was astounding during the E3 2013 reveal but turned out to be lesser than anticipated.





    - - - Updated - - -

    this is the first time i had a bad time with spoiler tags... :\ removed spoiler tags

    - - - Updated - - -

    what i am thinking is this- not even 1 year passed since 'new gen' (read ancient gen) consoles been released, they may do this for this year... maybe rockstar will learn this and they may do this for GTA 5 but what will happen next year? or the year after that? they cant do it forever. In the end, we are the one who's gonna prevail. PC Master Race.

    "they may take our lives but they will never take our FREEEEEEEEEDOM!!!!!!!!!!!"
    Last edited by furiousTaher; June 24th, 2014 at 14:24.

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    So not only consoles suck as always, now they are dragging PC down to its trash level? Disappointed.
    The abuse of greatness is when it disjoins remorse from power.
    Please do not PM me for support. You will NOT get a reply. Post in the relevant forum section.

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    wow.. seriously, i mean the division looked the best new ip in terms of open environments and destructibility... and all that hype of the new snowdrop engine... i mean why make a game engine capable of so powerful things[rendering and smoke and ¤¤¤¤] but the actual h\w can't make use of it all... ?? was this engine created before the specs of the xb1 and ps4 consoles were revealed to the devs??
    at least the fox engine is really amazing... next gen lighting, details and face animation and what not... really liked it..

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    Quote Originally Posted by CvP View Post
    So not only consoles suck as always, now they are dragging PC down to its trash level? Disappointed.
    :'(
    everytime they hold our back 3 years after new gen releases, but now the thing is much more severe than that.... when x360 and ps3 cam they were much superior than 2005 or 2006 pc.... u needed 2008 highest technology 8800gt to cope with them. but now ps4 and x1 can not compete with a 290. after september this year they will be more 'lagged behind'. so dirty politics(read dirty moneytrix) entered even video game industry

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    Actually we need to wait a bit to enjoy true NEXT-GEN stuffzz....maybe 2016

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    guys, this has more to do with Ubishit rather than new consoles.

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    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
    guys, this has more to do with Ubishit rather than new consoles.
    This is/will not be an isolated incident. More and more publishers/devs are gonna do the same over time considering new gen consoles are already too weak compared to current gen PCs.
    The abuse of greatness is when it disjoins remorse from power.
    Please do not PM me for support. You will NOT get a reply. Post in the relevant forum section.

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    but look how the last of us looked and played... exceptional. i mean maybe after some time when the dev ppl get a hold of all the optimizations and stuff figured out, maybe then they will churn out some real beauties..

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    You guys like pretending that every PC gamer owns a 290/780 and love calling console trash. You expect publishers to finance games which will run smoothly on... 2% of the gaming PCs?

    http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/

    Look at the GPU figures and tell me majority of those GPUs are anything short of trash.

    But of course, we'll forget all that and keep comparing $400 machines to $600 GPUs and demand more pixels!

    I'm just glad more and more devs are focusing on 60FPS, expecting crazy graphical leaps every generation is not realistic since these are all mainstream hardware.

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    YACVSPCT

    For those who are having trouble grasping the meaning, it stands for "Yet another Console VS PC thread"

    In before things get wild

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    Quote Originally Posted by aayman View Post
    You guys like pretending that every PC gamer owns a 290/780 and love calling console trash. You expect publishers to finance games which will run smoothly on... 2% of the gaming PCs?

    http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/

    Look at the GPU figures and tell me majority of those GPUs are anything short of trash.

    But of course, we'll forget all that and keep comparing $400 machines to $600 GPUs and demand more pixels!

    I'm just glad more and more devs are focusing on 60FPS, expecting crazy graphical leaps every generation is not realistic since these are all mainstream hardware.
    That's not the point.

    The point is they will be intentionally removing (or not adding) features that they would have put in otherwise which can make the game look better on higher end GPU (and future medium end GPU) and still maintain FPS on lower end by turning them off just to make consoles look on par with PC graphics.

    And you are focusing on *now*...these consoles are suppose to have 8 years of life span. They will be heavily underpowered compared to mid end (common) GPUs within just two year...
    The abuse of greatness is when it disjoins remorse from power.
    Please do not PM me for support. You will NOT get a reply. Post in the relevant forum section.

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    You could've posted it here instead of opening a new thread

    - - - Updated - - -

    @Taher furious

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    Quote Originally Posted by aayman View Post
    You guys like pretending that every PC gamer owns a 290/780 and love calling console trash. You expect publishers to finance games which will run smoothly on... 2% of the gaming PCs?

    http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/

    Look at the GPU figures and tell me majority of those GPUs are anything short of trash.

    But of course, we'll forget all that and keep comparing $400 machines to $600 GPUs and demand more pixels!

    I'm just glad more and more devs are focusing on 60FPS, expecting crazy graphical leaps every generation is not realistic since these are all mainstream hardware.
    ever heard of graphics settings ha? in console u cant change graphics advanced options but in pc u can easily change those. this excuse for downgrading wont work dude, try to get new excuse.
    and this is the beginning, dont think this stops here... they will continue to do this... i will see what u say 2 years from now when 50% of all steam users will use a gpu like 7870 or 7950. and i will see what u say after 4 years from now when 30% of all steam users will have 4k monitors

    and there is a spoiler tag for you because its off topic
    adapt and achieve:

    dude, i was a cod fan couple of years back... but they never changed anything, it was the same thing over and over again (defn of insanity). so i am a cod hater now.
    this downgrading to par with consoles will be very bad for gaming community in the end, i can guarantee it. and if you are supporting it you are a part of the problem. WE JUST DONT WANT TO SEE EVERY GAME TURNING TO BE COD.

    adapt and achieve. you are an intelligent guy, we hope you understand.
    peaceout


    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Single Player View Post
    You could've posted it here instead of opening a new thread furious
    i know but this downgrading is a major frustrating topic for pc gamers.

    disclaimer: i didnt start this thread to be a console vs pc thread...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Taher furious View Post
    ever heard of graphics settings ha? in console u cant change graphics advanced options but in pc u can easily change those. this excuse for downgrading wont work dude, try to get new excuse.
    and this is the beginning, dont think this stops here... they will continue to do this... i will see what u say 2 years from now when 50% of all steam users will use a gpu like 7870 or 7950. and i will see what u say after 4 years from now when 30% of all steam users will have 4k monitors

    and there is a spoiler tag for you because its off topic
    adapt and achieve:

    dude, i was a cod fan couple of years back... but they never changed anything, it was the same thing over and over again (defn of insanity). so i am a cod hater now.
    this downgrading to par with consoles will be very bad for gaming community in the end, i can guarantee it. and if you are supporting it you are a part of the problem. WE JUST DONT WANT TO SEE EVERY GAME TURNING TO BE COD.

    adapt and achieve. you are an intelligent guy, we hope you understand.
    peaceout


    - - - Updated - - -



    i know but this downgrading is a major frustrating topic for pc gamers.

    disclaimer: i didnt start this thread to be a console vs pc thread...
    And what's the first thing that most of those users turn down? What good is having ultra settings when you'll be downgrading? Do you think its cheaper to develop the lower settings or the ultra settings?

    And you don't need to wait 2 years to listen to what I have to say. I'll just point out your absurdity right now, 50% of users will have 7870/7950 class GPUs and that is a good thing to you? ... Those GPUs are already 2 years old...

    Please do not tell me I'm making excuses when you can't think things through yourself. Don't expect any publishers to chase fantasy configs, they're in for the money and will minimize costs whenever possible. For all we know, future Ubi games will look much better than The Division preview. We have seen that happen many times and undoubtedly will happen again.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by CvP View Post
    That's not the point.

    The point is they will be intentionally removing (or not adding) features that they would have put in otherwise which can make the game look better on higher end GPU (and future medium end GPU) and still maintain FPS on lower end by turning them off just to make consoles look on par with PC graphics.

    And you are focusing on *now*...these consoles are suppose to have 8 years of life span. They will be heavily underpowered compared to mid end (common) GPUs within just two year...
    And being one of the users who would've used those settings, should I cry about it? I was looking forward to The Division more so than Watch Dogs, and I honestly couldn't care less as long as it doesn't look backdated.

    I know about the hardware discrepancy between the two platforms and I also know about the marketshares and industry revenues, so I'm not surprised that PC version will not be all that it can be. I would very much prefer an entertaining game over something like Crysis 3.

    Times are different now though. Previously it was possible for consoles to come out with similar GPUs available on the PC, but there has been an exponential growth over the last 5 years. Given the price point of $400, is it realistic to assume it should have come with performance similar to current $200 GPUs?

    These consoles might have a shorter effective lifecycles too since they did start at prices cheaper than their previous gen. I'd be happy with a 5 year cycle as long as there are decent price cuts in between.

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    aayman, UBI Software failed to deliver, and their consecutive records of similar failures can be compared to our Bangladeshi cricket team. But that's besides the point. What chief is saying, that like the last generations of consoles, the relatively newer, and better next generation line up of consoles have already begun to hold the industry back, and it's not even been a year since they came to the market, and if this trend continues, we aren't going to get forward any time soon. The unexplored possibilities are what's making us upset. I think you and I've had a similar argument two years ago, where I stated consoles aren't only influencing the extent of current generation graphics, but the gameplay as well, where I pointed out that FPS games abandoned the health pick up system and moved to regenerative health, checkpoints, and also, the ability to carry a limited amount of weapons but in the past this was not the case, but your defense to this was that the industry is moving forward, and this wasn't due to consoles, but in reality, it's the contrary.

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    Consoles will influence the trend as long as controls the majority of the mainstream market. Expect a change when $1000 PCs lead the way and those gamers also buy all their games. Till that day arrives, you will see console bottlenecks because that is what's achievable at those price points.

    I remember the unlimited weapon thing, you still think shooters should allow you to carry unlimited weapons? Cool.

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    Better than believing in ducking behind a crate after literally getting drilled to death by bullets, and come out as a new man after a minute, eh? Bhai I'm not saying that the choices the industry has made are bad, I believe changes are good if it helps the industry to get forward, the unlimited weapons, and numerous deaths, and the search for med kit pickups came to a stage where it literally made the industry linear, and in that sense what consoles brought to the scene, even though it wasn't accepted warm heartedly at first, has turned out to be a good thing. What I tried to point out is, the ability these consoles have in determining the fate of the industry. There's no reason to argue over which is superior as it's irrelevant, but it does become a concern when it gets in the way of prosperity.
    Last edited by Fox Mulder; July 1st, 2014 at 06:42.

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    As opposed to consuming a medkit and turning into a new man while being drilled by bullets. Games that use medkits make sure to have plenty available when needed. I understand what you're saying, and having medkits could add a tactical element to the game, but it won't. There's a very thin line of difference between a challenge and frustration when it comes to SP games.

    If you really want truly tactical gaming, then look into MP games of your favorite genre. I believe even COD has a mode with no health re-generation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aayman View Post
    If you really want truly tactical gaming, then look into MP games of your favorite genre. I believe even COD has a mode with no health re-generation.
    And there are still people who are yet to hear about ArmA series.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CvP View Post
    This is/will not be an isolated incident. More and more publishers/devs are gonna do the same over time considering new gen consoles are already too weak compared to current gen PCs.
    yes i also think the same. But expected better from Ubishit. I will forever pirate their games. Will never ever pay them a single dime.

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