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Thread: Mismatched Ram Timing problem?

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    Default Mismatched Ram Timing problem?

    I have two sticks of 2GB 800 bus rams. One times 6-6-6-18 another 5-5-5-15.. now in order to run them, i have two options-

    1. Run them both @ 5-5-5-15, but that will make them run at 667 MHz (my motherboard sets it auto,if not manually set otherwise)
    or,
    2. Run them at 6-6-6-18, downtiming one ram thats capable of running at 5-5-5-15 (currently running in this mode)

    now, i need to know which is better in terms of stability?
    the reason im asking this qus is i got some pc hangups (event logger says, kernel power error event 41) since i got windows 7 and these rams,and had to hard reboot(i was running XP and 2GB 800mhz before without any problems). Im a bit anxious about it..need to know whats causing it..Rams or the OS? one thing is common though, everytime(more or less) my pc hanged was sometime after waking up from a sleep mode..i have played games on my system plainly for hours after normal boot without problem. So ...long story short...what do u guys think is my problem? the Rams? timings? or the windows 7 x64?
    Last edited by shohag2018; February 21st, 2010 at 21:27.

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    Default Re: Mismatched Ram Timing problem?

    Download OCCT from here

    Set both ram at 5-5-5-15 and run the torture test(Large block size) for an hour. If it fails, change them to 6-5-5-18. If that fails too, change them back to 6-6-6-18

    Usually, they should be fine at 5-5-5-15 timings.

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    Default Re: Mismatched Ram Timing problem?

    Quote Originally Posted by shohag2018 View Post
    I have two sticks of 2GB 800 bus rams. One times 6-6-6-18 another 5-5-5-15.. now in order to run them, i have two options-

    1. Run them both @ 5-5-5-15, but that will make them run at 667 MHz (my motherboard sets it auto,if not manually set otherwise)
    or,
    2. Run them at 6-6-6-18, downtiming one ram thats capable of running at 5-5-5-15 (currently running in this mode)

    now, i need to know which is better in terms of stability?
    the reason im asking this qus is i got some pc hangups (event logger says, kernel power error event 41) since i got windows 7 and these rams,and had to hard reboot(i was running XP and 2GB 800mhz before without any problems). Im a bit anxious about it..need to know whats causing it..Rams or the OS? one thing is common though, everytime(more or less) my pc hanged was sometime after waking up from a sleep mode..i have played games on my system plainly for hours after normal boot without problem. So ...long story short...what do u guys think is my problem? the Rams? timings? or the windows 7 x64?
    *What is causing the crashes? The different tRFCs of your RAM modules.
    *In which part is the crash occuring? The MCH of your Motherboard's Northbridge.
    *What is the potential risk? Either Motherboard or RAM module damage. Not both.


    EXPLANATION: The Memory Controller Hub(MCH) in Mainboard's Northbridge(for non-Core i)/CPU(for Core i) works properly when the following values are matched in all the RAM modules:-

    # a. Frequencies (FQ) = MCH auto matches all the installed RAM modules to the lowest value from the slowest RAM modules SPD table. In your case both values are 800MHz. So, this is not an issue here.

    # b. Colum Address Strobe Latencies (CL) = MCH auto matches all the installed RAM modules to the highest value from the slowest RAM module's SPD table. In your case, the CLs are 6 and 5. The MCH will set it to 6 for both modules. You can manually set 5 for both modules from the BIOS. So, this is not the issue here either.

    # c. Row to Colum Address Strobe Delay (tRCD) = Same case as b. For all installed modules, MCH selects and sets the maximum value from slowest module's SPD table.

    # d. Row Access Strobe Precharge (tRP) = Same case as b and/or c. For all installed modules, MCH selects and sets the maximum value from slowest module's SPD table.

    # e. Delay Cycles of Row active Strobe = Same case as b, c and/or d. For all installed modules, MCH selects and sets the maximum value from slowest module's SPD table.

    # f. Row Refresh Cycle (tRFC): This value is NOT listed in RAM module's SPD table and MCH can NOT read it.
    *So, if the memory modules installed in your Motherboard have different tRFC values, MCH can NOT match its value by auto detect.
    *BUT IT MUST BE MATCHED and the only way to do it is manually from the BIOS.

    NB. Different RAM modules from different manufacturers have different rRFC values. Even different models of RAM modules from the same brand can have different tRFC values.


    Both your RAMs are 800Mhz(FQ). But one (lets call it A) has 6(CL)-6(tRCD)-6(tRP)-18(tRAS)-??(tRFC)-?T(CR) and another (lets call it B) has 5(CL)-5(tRCD)-5(tRP)-15(tRAS)-??(tRFC)-?T(CR)

    SOLUTION: Find out what are the tRFC values of EACH of your RAM Modules Individually and then, from the BIOS, you'll have to manually set the value from the slowest module (BTW, THERE IS NO HIGHEST OR LOWEST FOR tRFC). I stress again, it has to be done manually since MCH can not auto detect tRFC for modules with different values.

    Do NOT trust CPU-Z as CPU-Z only reads the value from SPD table and tRFC is not an SPD parameter.

    Good stuff.
    Last edited by Streamyx; February 23rd, 2010 at 21:11.
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    Default Re: Mismatched Ram Timing problem?

    If you don't fix this issue, your system will keep locking up and evantually it will damage your motherboard.
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    Default Re: Mismatched Ram Timing problem?

    Great post Shahriar. Usually the tRFC directly varies based on the capacity of the memory stick (1GB sticks tend to have much tighter tRFC) and/or very large differences in latency, hence I didnt think it might be a problem. After that post I realised it is even a problem in rare occasions even when latencies and capacity are the same/similar. Weird, since they have almost zero performance difference, I wonder why manufacturers dont just follow the JEDEC spec for the tRFC. Slight differences dont always lead to an unstable system however, check the BIOS to see if there is an option to change the tRFC, not alll BIOS'es have that.

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    Default Re: Mismatched Ram Timing problem?

    thanks a lot guys...i ll try that n let u kno what happs. but one thin im not clear though, why is my motherboard setting it 5-5-5-15 and 667mhz freq automatically? isnt it supposed to set all o them in the lowest (6-6-6-18) or is it with the bus speed thats being kept low?

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    Default Re: Mismatched Ram Timing problem?

    Quote Originally Posted by shohag2018 View Post
    thanks a lot guys...i ll try that n let u kno what happs. but one thin im not clear though, why is my motherboard setting it 5-5-5-15 and 667mhz freq automatically? isnt it supposed to set all o them in the lowest (6-6-6-18) or is it with the bus speed thats being kept low?
    No, the bus speed is not being kept high or low or whatever. MCH doesn't work like that, it doesn't make descisions; its a dumb piece of silicon that only selects a value string that it finds common in all the RAM module's SPD table.

    Neither [email protected] nor [email protected] value strings are common among the SPD table of your memory modules. The only common string that is present in both modules' SPD list is [email protected] That is why MCH is selecting it in auto mode.

    Install only one module in your Motherboard and run CPU-Z (v1.53.1) and note the SPD table under the "SPD" (5th) tab. Do this individually for each of your RAM modules and you'll find out that only [email protected] is common values between them.


    Usually, for one Frequency level, only one string is listed in the SPD table of a module. For example, if the RAM has [email protected] in its SPD table it will not include [email protected] in the same table... even though it can easyly work with that string value. But the reason MCH couldn't set the [email protected] as [email protected] is because it didn't find it in that modules SPD while it was reading the table. How stupid, isn't it?!!!

    That is why in this case it has to be set manually. Our MCH guy is not intellegent enough to realize that a 5-5-5-15 module can easily work as 6-6-6-18 even though its not written in the table. It only reads the SPD strings from the tables of all the modules and finds a common string to use out of them using a formula; and the formula is explained in post# 3.

    Anyways, like I said, its not these value that is causing you trouble... its the tRFC thats freezing your MCH.

    Good stuff.
    Last edited by Streamyx; February 23rd, 2010 at 21:12.
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    Default Re: Mismatched Ram Timing problem?

    Quote Originally Posted by Streamyx View Post
    No, the bus speed is not being kept high or low or whatever. MCH doesn't work like that, it doesn't make descisions; its a dumb piece of silicon that only selects a value string that it finds common in all the RAM module's SPD table.

    Neither [email protected] nor [email protected] value strings are common among the SPD table of your memory modules. The only common string that is present in both modules' SPD list is [email protected] That is why MCH is selecting it in auto mode.

    Install only one module in your Motherboard and run CPU-Z (v1.53.1) and note the SPD table under the "SPD" (5th) tab. Do this individually for each of your RAM modules and you'll find out that only [email protected] is common values between them.


    Usually, for one Frequency level, only one string is listed in the SPD table of a module. For example, if the RAM has [email protected] in its SPD table it will not include [email protected] in the same table... even though it can easyly work with that string value. But the reason MCH couldn't set the [email protected] as [email protected] is because it didn't find it in that modules SPD while it was reading the table. How stupid, isn't it?!!!

    That is why in this case it has to be set manually. Our MCH guy is not intellegent enough to realize that a 5-5-5-15 module can easily work as 6-6-6-18 even though its not written in the table. It only reads the SPD strings from the tables of all the modules and finds a common string to use out of them using a formula; and the formula is explained in post# 3.

    Anyways, like I said, its not these value that is causing you trouble... its the tRFC thats freezing your MCH.

    Sadly enough though...just like Mr. mazhar said,my award BOIS dint have the tRFC anywhere(yes i tried the advanced settings cntrl+f1) Updating the bois to f9, dint help either..i tried the 6-6-6-18 @ 800mhz (changing the multiplier 2:3) then stressed the ram 98% with orthos and prime95, my pc died on me in 2 mins. then going back to auto- 5-5-5-15, 667mhz, stress lasted for 2hrs and 7 mins. im really out of sorts now..nyways i ended up calling the guy i bought the rams from, and offered -"my ram + some money = same branded ram with similar timings".. he says he ll try his best..i donno, i cant sleep when something goes wrong with my pc..its gonna be loong nyt..

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    Default Re: Mismatched Ram Timing problem?

    Quote Originally Posted by shohag2018 View Post
    Sadly enough though...just like Mr. mazhar said,my award BOIS dint have the tRFC anywhere(yes i tried the advanced settings cntrl+f1) Updating the bois to f9, dint help either..i tried the 6-6-6-18 @ 800mhz (changing the multiplier 2:3) then stressed the ram 98% with orthos and prime95, my pc died on me in 2 mins. then going back to auto- 5-5-5-15, 667mhz, stress lasted for 2hrs and 7 mins. im really out of sorts now..nyways i ended up calling the guy i bought the rams from, and offered -"my ram + some money = same branded ram with similar timings".. he says he ll try his best..i donno, i cant sleep when something goes wrong with my pc..its gonna be loong nyt..
    What happens at 667 6-6-6-21?

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    Default Re: Mismatched Ram Timing problem?

    okay here is my screenshots -
    When running in dual channel mode, my mobo sets them automatically to-



    The separate timings of my rams are-

    ram-1 with 6-6-6-18, 800mhz



    ram-2 with 5-5-5-15, 800mhz



    and i figured out the tRFC u were talking about is the "Refresh To ACT delay"..which is set to 44 instead of 52.

    now what my common sense tells me is ,to run it in 6-6-6-18 in the standard timing section, and set 3-3-6-52-3-5 in the advanced timing, and set the mem freq to 800mhz manually(by changing the mem freq multiplier) in order to get better stability. and also what should i do with the last thing- "static tREAD phase adjust" i cant set it to zero, lowest i can get to is 1 while running in dual channel.

    What do u think?
    Last edited by shohag2018; February 23rd, 2010 at 14:00.

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    Default Re: Mismatched Ram Timing problem?

    Quote Originally Posted by shohag2018 View Post
    okay here is my screenshots -
    When running in dual channel mode, my mobo sets them automatically to-



    The separate timings of my rams are-

    ram-1 with 6-6-6-18, 800mhz



    ram-2 with 5-5-5-15, 800mhz



    and i figured out the tRFC u were talking about is the "Refresh To ACT delay"..which is set to 44 instead of 52.

    now what my common sense tells me is ,to run it in 6-6-6-18 in the standard timing section, and set 3-3-6-52-3-5 in the advanced timing, and set the mem freq to 800mhz manually(by changing the mem freq multiplier) in order to get better stability. and also what should i do with the last thing- "static tREAD phase adjust" i cant set it to zero, lowest i can get to is 1 while running in dual channel.

    What do u think?
    I think the designer of this mobo was a hard @$$ with null sense of humour, ya.. thats what i think.

    Anyways, looks like the only config that won't lock up your MCH is [email protected]
    Don't worry about the tREADs... besides you can't set them manually anyways, so whats the point?

    BTW, in this case, changing the FQ by adjusting the NB multiplier is a bad move. By doing that, you are actually forcing the MCH to only partially follow the SPD table by limiting the multiplier parameter. It will cause your system to crash even faster. So just forget it.

    As I understand [email protected] is the only setting that will get your MCH off the hook and the tREADs shouldn't cause any trouble... But there are other factors like command rate which I don't know weather your Mobo lets you set that manally or not... I suspect your RAM-2 has 1T and its forcing you RAM-1 to 1T which actually has 2T... that will freez up your MCH too... to solve that you need option to set it manually in the BIOS.

    To me, getting RAMs with exactly matching specs looks the smartest solution. Cuz if you keep tickling your mobo with this RAMs your mobo will quit on you eventually ... and if your Mobo is old then it will happen sooner then you'd expect.
    I can see you are going through too much headache this problems... why don't you just put the RAM-2 for sale in the forum and just get another one that exactly matches RAM-1? Why make life difficult? Take it easy bro.

    Good stuff.
    Last edited by Streamyx; February 23rd, 2010 at 21:17.
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  12. #12
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    Default Re: Mismatched Ram Timing problem?

    ya, i ll try selling or changing the ram..For what its worth im Trying out every loosened timing possible in every zone for the last time to see what happens.nd yeah..thanks for all ur support and help outs. it was very helpful and i really appreciate it.

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    Default Re: Mismatched Ram Timing problem?

    Quote Originally Posted by Streamyx View Post

    BTW, in this case, changing the FQ by adjusting the NB multiplier is a bad move. By doing that, you are actually forcing the MCH to only partially follow the SPD table by limiting the multiplier parameter. It will cause your system to crash even faster. So just forget it.
    Not always. FSB:RAM ratio determins the tRD, and a looser latency should help the MCH gain stability

    Also, yes, set both sticks at 2T, a bigger loss in performance than the other latencies usually, but a lot more stability

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