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Thread: Let's talk: AMD Graphics Lack of feature

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    Post Let's talk: AMD Graphics Lack of feature

    i didnt write it... took it from http://forum.overclock3d.net/showthread.php?t=53751

    COMPARISON:


    AMD's lack of software features to accompany their graphics cards.

    Now I'm not making this thread to troll I love AMD and their products I'm making this so we can have a civil discussion about the lack of features included with AMD graphics cards and what that means in the grand scheme, is it an issue, does it really matter.

    Now you may be wondering what do I mean well let me just give you examples.

    NVIDIA has 3D Vision which lets you play games in 3D. It's a free software feature and all you need is a compatible 3D Display and 3D Glasses. It works very well and is baked right in to their driver bundle.

    AMD on the other hand requires you to purchase a 3rd party 3D solution and it does not work so well. So you have to buy the software on top of a 3D TV and Glasses and you end up with a less compatible solution to NVIDIA.

    PhysX. NVIDIA purchased Ageia many years ago and ever since they've heavily been pushing PhysX. You can use this if you only have AMD graphics but you're confined to running the Physics calculations on your CPU which is much slower. AMD still don't have a competitive solution, most games that use a specific physics technology are leaning towards NVIDIA's PhysX solution.

    NVIDIA Surround. AMD does have Eyefinity and while it works fine in games just as NVIDIA Surround does when you're at the desktop it falls apart. Instead of having each screen treated as its own screen it treats them as one giant screen. This is fine in games but at the desktop your task bar is stretched across all three displays, your windows when maximised stretch across all three screens. NVIDIA has fixed this problem, in NVIDIA Surround mode (On Windows 7 only, not Windows 8 yet) you get a single Task Bar on the centre display and maximising a window only maximises it in to the screen it is in.

    And there are other examples. We had the CUDA accelerated video transcoder from NVIDIA which was not free but did drastically speed up video transcoding for mobile devices. AMD never had an answer to that product. Then just now with the launch of the GTX 780 series NVIDIA has given us both NVIDIA Experience which tunes your games settings and alerts you to new driver releases and Shadow Play which is a way to record game footage with a minimal 5 to 10% performance penalty. Again AMD has no answer to these products.

    Now that Shadow Play feature may not seem like a big deal but when you look at how many gaming videos are posted on youtube daily it becomes a huge deal for a lot of people. FRAPS can sometimes more than half your gaming performance while recording.

    So are these types of features important to you when you consider a GPU purchase or is it only the graphical fidelity and price to performance that you care about?

    Personally I think AMD is really letting themselves down by not investing more in to their software and for me I'm starting to think that even if AMD had a slightly faster card or a slightly cheaper card I'd still go NVIDIA for the convenience of the software suite they have developed.


    Thoughts?

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    partially true. they should upgrade their drivers and interfaces a bit. though have seen them trying to catch up with nvidia with stuffs like raptr and few more stuffs. mantle API sounds interesting but let's see what's on nvidia's mind.

    CUDA, PhysX doesn't really do that much thing. when converting video Intel's on die GPU is better than CUDA! so y care! I have played metro last light on both AMD's 7XXX card and nvidia's 6XX card. didn't see much difference.

    nvidia has a very beautiful and organized site. i must say that. AMD should have done the same!

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    Quote Originally Posted by redwan hasan View Post
    when converting video Intel's on die GPU is better than CUDA! so y care!
    Not anymore... GTX600+ GPUs has built-in dedicated hardware for video encoding now. They don't need CUDA for encoding anymore.

    Nvidia also plans to use this dedicated video encoder for ShadowPlay, to capture gameplay videos and it would hit GPU performance by less than 5%... it is going to replace FRAPS and Capture Cards IMO (atleast for Nvidia users ).
    Quran 6:159 - there is no sunni, shia under Islam.

    NOTE: I'm leaving this forum.. do not quote, tag, mention or PM me... you won't get a response.

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    I first read it " AMD Graphics lack of gimmicks."

    And I do make the odd gameplay video for my Minecraft server so the Shadow Play feature is interesting to me however I've not yet tried it.
    Minecraft with 2x 780 ... erm.
    Last edited by Frank3nst3in; October 19th, 2013 at 00:24.

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    Mantle - Epic fail

    FRAPS/Shadow Play - Use BDCam

    PhysX - Don't they use Havok anymore?

    3D Vision/HD3D - Small niche market segment

    Eyefinity/Surround - Same as above

    NVIDIA Experience/Raptr - Can't help us pirateers! pfffttt
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    ^I think it works with pirated games as well, you can manually add the exe files. Or at least that worked when it was first released. Haven't installed it since.

    ShadowPlay can be extremely useful for those who make montages. Frank you made fun with 2x780 and Minecraft, but you'll see why SP is so great when making vids of BF3/4.

    PhysX is great if you have the hardware for it, if it wasn't a performance killer than more users would want it. AMD's Havok is used in some games, and I believe they also have another one called Bullet or something which has yet to see any support.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunia_r_JAURA View Post
    Mantle - Epic fail
    no, it is a game changer only if amd and the developers can use it

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    Quote Originally Posted by Taher furious View Post
    no, it is a game changer only if amd and the developers can use it
    Looking at a press conference right now, and they just mentioned that Sony and MS are not using Mantle so they do not expect it to have a big impact.

    I always thought Mantle would be a part of the consoles, guess I was wrong.

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    Quoting from here "For over 15 years, Direct3D has served as an essential ingredient to deliver cutting-edge 3D graphics in games," "During this time, Direct3D has dramatically evolved as a result of deep investments we've made in development across our device platforms (Windows, Xbox, and Windows Phone) and continued partnership with industry-leading GPU hardware vendors and game developers."

    M$ will try their best to fend off non directx API from becoming mainstream. Poor AMD . Another great initiative probably gone in vain.

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    ms korbe na agei jantam... buy sonyr kora uchit

    hope developer ra mantle use koray jhukbe... tahole kisuta low config pc teo chrm grafix er game khela jabe... which will lead to a high sell

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by minitt View Post
    ms will try their best to fend off non directx API from becoming mainstream. Poor AMD . Another great initiative probably gone in vain.
    they are like apple, they have to do anything to keep the status quo.

    but its upto amd, they have to decide what they want, their processor side isnt doing very well(though gpu side is doing great and they will earn money from consoles). so they have to persuade devs to use mantle and sell more games.

    i seriously think sony has to use mantle, come on sony, dx11.2 is for xboxone, bring something against it, sell more devices

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    Quote Originally Posted by Taher furious View Post
    Thoughts?
    It is a known fact that AMD kinda sucks in both; cpu and gpu.
    The abuse of greatness is when it disjoins remorse from power.
    Please do not PM me for support. You will NOT get a reply. Post in the relevant forum section.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Taher furious View Post
    ms korbe na agei jantam... buy sonyr kora uchit

    hope developer ra mantle use koray jhukbe... tahole kisuta low config pc teo chrm grafix er game khela jabe... which will lead to a high sell
    Do you honestly think AMD themselves want crazy gfx + high FPS on low/mid end cards? Who would buy anything above a 7850 then?

    We have yet to see Mantle in use, the nvidia guy just mentioned that their drivers already allow a lot of low-level processing which devs already use. We'll get to see it in action in December, lets hold our breaths till then.

    AMD can't persuade devs themselves if MS and Sony don't back them, and Sony won't risk having unproven software determine the future of an entire generation of consoles.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Taher furious View Post
    ms korbe na agei jantam... buy sonyr kora uchit

    hope developer ra mantle use koray jhukbe... tahole kisuta low config pc teo chrm grafix er game khela jabe... which will lead to a high sell

    - - - Updated - - -



    they are like apple, they have to do anything to keep the status quo.

    but its upto amd, they have to decide what they want, their processor side isnt doing very well(though gpu side is doing great and they will earn money from consoles). so they have to persuade devs to use mantle and sell more games.

    i seriously think sony has to use mantle, come on sony, dx11.2 is for xboxone, bring something against it, sell more devices
    TPU e ei nia porsilam. Seems that devs have to do like use dx for xb1, opengl for ps4 than mantle for both to give game changing gfx amd wanted to give us. So more work for a market they no longer care that much. So wanna make port for windows? Port it from xb1. Port for linux. Get that from ps4.

    - - - Updated - - -

    And add that AMD deliberately cripples its crossfire capability. After all this years, why don't they improvise cf and give out free bridges? Coz they don't want 2x Gtx 460 >> 1x Gtx 480/580 = money saving to happen. Only their high ends e.g. 7950/7970 get good support.
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    Quote Originally Posted by aayman View Post
    Do you honestly think AMD themselves want crazy gfx + high FPS on low/mid end cards? Who would buy anything above a 7850 then?

    We have yet to see Mantle in use, the nvidia guy just mentioned that their drivers already allow a lot of low-level processing which devs already use. We'll get to see it in action in December, lets hold our breaths till then.
    because eventually, devs can make much more better game engine(with twice or thrice the texture/shadow and tesselation) which uses more resources and dramatically change the gaming scenario causing plenty of more gpus to sell and blah blah....

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Dunia_r_JAURA View Post
    And add that AMD deliberately cripples its crossfire capability. After all this years, why don't they improvise cf and give out free bridges? Coz they don't want 2x Gtx 460 >> 1x Gtx 480/580 = money saving to happen. Only their high ends e.g. 7950/7970 get good support.
    i dont think thats the reason, i think its because they are noob. they know nvidia is still out there mainstream gpu business bcoz they are ¤¤¤¤ with their drivers, but they are still sleeping or kicking their asses.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Taher furious View Post
    because eventually, devs can make much more better game engine(with twice or thrice the texture/shadow and tesselation) which uses more resources and dramatically change the gaming scenario causing plenty of more gpus to sell and blah blah....
    How is that any different from what they can already do with MUCH higher margin GPUs?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Dunia_r_JAURA View Post
    And add that AMD deliberately cripples its crossfire capability. After all this years, why don't they improvise cf and give out free bridges? Coz they don't want 2x Gtx 460 >> 1x Gtx 480/580 = money saving to happen. Only their high ends e.g. 7950/7970 get good support.
    Have you seen the recent CF improvements? If going multi-GPU, now is the time to consider AMD as a viable option. 6 months ago the scenario was completely different and Nvidia had a comfortable lead in that department.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aayman View Post
    How is that any different from what they can already do with MUCH higher margin GPUs?

    - - - Updated - - -



    Have you seen the recent CF improvements? If going multi-GPU, now is the time to consider AMD as a viable option. 6 months ago the scenario was completely different and Nvidia had a comfortable lead in that department.
    any chance 2x 7850s beating a 680/770?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunia_r_JAURA View Post
    any chance 2x 7850s beating a 680/770?
    Why not?

    http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/11/19/hd...multi-gpu-buy/

    And this is before driver improvements.

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    IDKT. Point taken. But what about game support?
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    Quote Originally Posted by aayman View Post
    How is that any different from what they can already do with MUCH higher margin GPUs?
    bcoz they can sell much more! but its not upto you its upto amd whether or not they wanna write history(and gain profit) by doing so. its the vision they have to have.
    to persuade devs to make game for pc in different platform its kinda difficult but they also have a cpu business, that is an advantage they can use somehow.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Dunia_r_JAURA View Post
    IDKT. Point taken. But what about game support?
    u will get great fps in most games u play like AC COD BF SC Batman

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    Quote Originally Posted by Taher furious View Post
    bcoz they can sell much more! but its not upto you its upto amd whether or not they wanna write history(and gain profit) by doing so. its the vision they have to have.
    to persuade devs to make game for pc in different platform its kinda difficult but they also have a cpu business, that is an advantage they can use somehow.
    You do not seem to understand how important margins are. High margin and High sales (current situation) does not need to be substituted by lower margins and higher sales since it won't be higher enough to negate the difference from the current situation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunia_r_JAURA View Post
    IDKT. Point taken. But what about game support?
    What do you mean? Most games do support multi GPUs, maybe not always out of the box but things are very different now.

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