Attack Speed, BAT and DPS

[Pyro.Dynamics-]

I am sorry RuffRider, but 2x Butterflies do not give you 120% Increased Attack Speed. Attack Speed stacks with dimishing returns. And, also Evasion doesn't stack at all from multiple Butterflies.

[CvP]

how come AS has diminishing returns?!! There's just a AS cap of 400% in DotA.


forget about butterfly/asslt or dagger.

if you can make deso, power treads and a bottle ~30 min, you will most likely win the game with these items only.


going Skadi+LifeSteal is never a good idea. the reason is: PSI BLADES
the spill damage is not the damage you do to the target.
it is the damage that the target takes.

so, when you reduce your target's armor and hit him, he get's more damaged. this damage is spilled.
In a simple way: Psi Blades makes deso to cleave (not actually though).

and here's the IMBA secret: Illusion's take 300% damage. make a deso. turn on refraction, hit meld, hit a illu and just see the spill damage...it's 3x the normal rafraction+meld+deso combo.

[TE.Ruff]

Sorry i can't understand what you mean by AS diminishing returns. I told that just in a sense of common calculation. As long as i know that item's AS increase a hero's AS according to his total agility. Am i right?

[CvP]

not everything in dota works that way. for example, Armor damage reduction works diminishing way i.e. each point of armor reduced damage a little less than the previous point.

however, Pyro got his head hit somewhere i guess. AS doesn't have any diminishing thing. there's just a maximum cap of 400% AS.

each point of agility increases AS by 1%.
so the easiest way to calculate AS is by summing up all the AS % and your total agility.

2x Butter indeed gives 120% AS.
but really, it IS a waste. get a Hyper/Asslt/Mjolnir/MKB/Madness/Manta or a gg branch instead.

only one hero, moon raider, has some viability of 2x butter. ALL other heroes have no use of 2x Butter.

[TE.Ruff]

I go for 2xbutterfly because agi hero ke onno kono 2ta item 2xbf er moto at a time ato huge speed and dmg dibe na.

[CvP]

and you are wrong again.
i get 1 butter and 1 asslt, u get 2 butter. let's see who wins...

60% more AS? asslt gives 55%, doesn't it?
+60 dmg? so what? most heroes will have ~70% dmg reduction anyways..think about the extra -5 armor and the damage you have.

[TE.Ruff]

Good point. Thanks for correction.

[Pyro.Dynamics-]

I don't believe, this is from sheer expeerience, taht attack speed doesn't stack fully from same items. I want you to prove me wrong CvP. I wany you to. No one will be happier than me.

[SinEater]

Finally, somewhere that I can butt in....

See here, the reason for all the confusion is IAS '%', it is never done in percentage....1 IAS will simply work like u have 1 extra agility. So, you might have 100 AS at a certain instant, then if you buy a hyperstone, it will increase upto 155; 55% increase!!.....but if you have 200 AS at a certain time, and then buy a hyper, AS goes to 255, without any diminishing factor, but only 22.5% increase really!!....and the cap is 400 AS..although it is written as 400%...

So although you both are right, none of you are wrong..

[CvP]

well, your experience is telling wrong things.
i have no intention to spend time on this simple matter. so you test for yourself.

buy two eaglehorn and one butter. measure the AS.
but two hyper. u get the same.

or buy two butter. measure the AS. it will be same as 60% frenzy + one butter.

btw, look for AS guides on various forums or ask galib bhai if you want.

[CvP]

if pyro is expecting 55% increase of the current AS after buying a hyper, he is a noob.
AS% is always based on base AS (aka BAT if i remember correctly); which is same for 95% heroes.

[SinEater]

if pyro is expecting 55% increase of the current AS after buying a hyper, he is a noob.
AS% is always based on base AS (aka BAT if i remember correctly); which is same for 95% heroes.

True is all counts, exceptions are i think Soul Keeper, Anti Mage and Lycanthrope in Wolf form...if i remeber correctly...

[CvP]

( 1 + IAS ) / BAT = Attacks Per Game Second

BAT is Base Attack Time: The time in seconds between attacks without any increased attack speed

Shandelzare Silkwood, the Vengeful Spirit - BAT: 1.77
Syllabear's Spirit Bear level 1: 1.75
Syllabear's Spirit Bear level 2: 1.65
Syllabear, the Lone Druid (True Form) - BAT: 1.6
Terrorblade, the Soul Keeper (metamorphosis) - BAT: 1.6
Huskar, Sacred Warrior - BAT: 1.6
Jah'Rakal, the Troll Warlord (melee): 1.55
Syllabear's Spirit Bear level 3: 1.55
Terrorblade, the Soul Keeper - BAT: 1.5
Magina, the Anti-Mage - BAT: 1.45
Razzil Darkbrew, the Alchemist (Chemical Rage level 1): 1.45
Syllabear's Spirit Bear level 4: 1.45
Banehallow, the Lycanthrope (wolf form) - BAT: 1.4
Razzil Darkbrew, the Alchemist (Chemical Rage level 2): 1.35
Razzil Darkbrew, the Alchemist (Chemical Rage level 3): 1.25
Every other hero: 1.7

stupid 10 chars

[TE.Ruff]

I think AS is increasing based on my total speed. Suppose i've total 150% AS and if i buy a hyper, my total speed will be (150+(150*55/100)). Is this correct?

[Pyro.Dynamics-]

I know BAT u dumb CvP. Yea I have tested it in Single Player. I guess you are right. I have only 2 year old games in memory, when I used to get 2X Hypers. After I thought about it, I always compared my hero's IAS to my friends' heroes'. That's where I have jumbled it up. Long story. You wouldn't wanna hear it.

[SinEater]

I think AS is increasing based on my total speed. Suppose i've total 150% AS and if i buy a hyper, my total speed will be (150+(150*55/100)). Is this correct?

It will be 205% AS.

Would you guts plz cut the ****? Simply 2 butters is a waste because, even if AS stacks, evasion never stacks.

I shall still suggest 2 butterfly on Drow and Luna. But these are the only 2.

[Z]

AS tou mone hoy base attack speed er upor effect kore always.. mane 50% barar por aro 30% AS barle total 80 % increase hobe.. :\ this is what i figured from dota-allstars.com .. :o

[SinEater]

This thread will be closed in the near future as I have tried to compile everything in a new thread. If you have any queries about attack speed, check this thread:
http://www.banglagamer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=867