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Thread: [Debunked]Definite Proof Of Lower Quality GPU Being Sold In Our Region

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    Default [Debunked]Definite Proof Of Lower Quality GPU Being Sold In Our Region

    I don't know how credible this review is, but I was shocked when I came across this:

    http://www.kitguru.net/components/gr...ion-review/18/

    There was this screenshot posted along with the review, which took me by surprise:



    I own the same card, accept maybe a different revision. And here is what mine looks like:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Proof.jpg 
Views:	209 
Size:	349.6 KB 
ID:	30742

    Look at the voltage reported by GPU-Z and Furmark!

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    ^^ you're over-exgeggarating. Every reviewer when write review articles for SKUs of add-in-board partners, asks them for a sample, where the vendor ships some of the best, finely tuned to OC and hand-picked cards. But if the reviewer got his card via newegg or any other retailer than *cough* maybe *cough* you're right. So read a review or two of two or three months younger than the launch reviews and see if the reviewer stated he bought it off the shelf and compare it with yours.
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    I can't seem to open the kitguru image. I only see the thumbnail.

    - - - Updated - - -

    That's a 0.06V difference, not even remotely close to being definite proof of anything. All cards are not the same, some need more voltages even when running at stock clocks.
    Last edited by aayman; September 19th, 2013 at 02:07.

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    Apart from the colour and the voltage I really dont see any difference. And like @aayman said a slight difference in voltage doesn't mean your card is inferior quality. and even if lower quality products are being sold there is nothing to do about. Vendors are gonna bring them, people are gonna buy them. Don't worry too much about it vai. You have a great GPU so keep on gaming !


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    The way semiconductors are built, you can't really ensure that they'll all consume the exact same amp of power at a certain workload.

    Some will need more, some will need less -- this is the exact same analogy as overclocking, in sense that some chips simply handle it better than others.

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    How exactly is this an exaggeration? All cards, even factory overclocked ones should have the same operating voltages, right or wrong? The leakage is a different story, but when they operate at the default voltages, the value should be same no matter what the model is! If you don't believe me, ask people who own this very particular card, or ask people that owns the very same model of card each and every one of you own to post a GPU-Z screenshot and you'll see it for yourself. The increase in voltage proves that chips with lower yields made it to this region, that the chips require higher voltage to gain stability. And the more voltage is fed, the lower longevity a product has.

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    Two of my 670s don't operate at the same voltage most of the time @ 99% load, proof enough.

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    @aayman you suck at math! The difference is 0.072!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by aayman View Post
    Two of my 670s don't operate at the same voltage most of the time @ 99% load, proof enough.
    Your GTX 670 is a different story. It's got boost, remember? It alters voltages, however, these cards don't have boost. Proof enough?

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    Adjusts voltages on the fly but at same clock speeds (or off by ~30mhz) with same load they are still different. You're making a fuss out of nothing, that minor voltage difference doesn't even warrant this many responses.

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    > All cards, even factory overclocked ones should have the same operating voltages, right or wrong?

    Wrong, you've never really dealt with ASIC/SoCs before, have you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Codex View Post
    > All cards, even factory overclocked ones should have the same operating voltages, right or wrong?

    Wrong, you've never really dealt with ASIC/SoCs before, have you?
    Shoja Banglay e boli, SOC edition e voltage jodi baray e, oi particular SOC card tar shob koita e oi SAME voltage e operate hobe, right or wrong? Tomar Sapphire Toxic Edition shob koita card e same voltage cholbe, taina? Kono 1ta Toxic card lower ba higher voltage e cholbena, factory theke define na kore dile.

    http://www.techpowerup.com/vgabios/1...60-110607.html

    http://www.techpowerup.com/vgabios/9...80-101111.html

    2ta stock card er bios theke set kora voltage dekho:

    "Voltage: by ASIC (0.9500 V - 1.1000 V) User Voltage limit: below 1.1125 V"

    2mader claim onujayi, stock card er ek ektar voltage reading howa uchit ek ek rokom?
    Last edited by Fox Mulder; September 19th, 2013 at 11:49.

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    Eita ki A grade , B grade, C grade gpu er kahini naki?

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    I did some more digging, and I think you folks are gonna love this:

    It turns out, the Vcore voltages set by Sapphire or other manufacturers is dependent on the ASIC quality of the Graphics cards, hence, even though you might own the same graphics card, it might have a different quality and different yield and voltages applied.

    Here is a screenshot of a high quality ASIC:



    Here is a screenshot of a moderate quality ASIC:



    Now for the Vcore voltages:














    I could have sworn that even with graphics cards from a few generations ago, default Vcore voltages wouldn't vary like this, no matter what quality the ASIC is! Like for example the 9800 GT or the HD 4850 cards I came across, all of these, doesn't matter reference or the custom PCB, had the same Vcore attributes to them unless it was an OC edition like the TOXIC ones. I guess Silicon draw is all about luck, since a reviewer ended up with a card which had 76% ASIC quality, so the claims of lower quality product being imported to our country might not be true at all, or, they hand pick the cards with lower quality ASIC and bombed our markets on purpose!
    Last edited by Fox Mulder; September 19th, 2013 at 13:43.

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    too high or too low asic quality is not desirable . but u cannot judge quality of consumer level products by asic. it is on luck for 99% buyers. donot waste your time digging up these BSs. stop worrying start enjoying.

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    I wanted to say something, but then I figured what's the use? If they are indeed shipping SKUs with 70 odd percentage specifically to our country, we can't do anything about it. So please, don't be mislead by my thread, and believe in what you wish to believe. But if I am ever going to buy a new GPU, I am certainly getting it from abroad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fox Mulder View Post
    How exactly is this an exaggeration? All cards, even factory overclocked ones should have the same operating voltages, right or wrong? The leakage is a different story, but when they operate at the default voltages, the value should be same no matter what the model is! If you don't believe me, ask people who own this very particular card, or ask people that owns the very same model of card each and every one of you own to post a GPU-Z screenshot and you'll see it for yourself. The increase in voltage proves that chips with lower yields made it to this region, that the chips require higher voltage to gain stability. And the more voltage is fed, the lower longevity a product has.
    leakage is not a different story. basically the whole thing is based on leakage current. i.e Higher leakage current -> lower current supplied to/drawn by the GPU chip -> for a certain frequency, higher voltage is required to remain the wattage constant (since P=VI ) -> lower ASIC quality.
    and 'higher voltage -> lower longevity' is not always true. the VRM doesn't accept any VID which is out of operating range..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fox Mulder View Post
    I wanted to say something, but then I figured what's the use? If they are indeed shipping SKUs with 70 odd percentage specifically to our country, we can't do anything about it. So please, don't be mislead by my thread, and believe in what you wish to believe. But if I am ever going to buy a new GPU, I am certainly getting it from abroad.
    So, u automatically assumed that all GPUs in western countries have a high ASIC rating?

    The truth is ASIC is not dependable or reliable variable to determine chip quality. Only the board partners /TSMC/nvidia/AMD can conclusively say which chip is of higher quality.
    Last edited by minitt; September 20th, 2013 at 01:46.

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    I'll post my screens after I get back, it won't be very different from the ones here. ASIC readings are not enough to prove anything like this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by @nonymous™ View Post
    leakage is not a different story. basically the whole thing is based on leakage current. i.e Higher leakage current -> lower current supplied to/drawn by the GPU chip -> for a certain frequency, higher voltage is required to remain the wattage constant (since P=VI ) -> lower ASIC quality.
    and 'higher voltage -> lower longevity' is not always true. the VRM doesn't accept any VID which is out of operating range..
    Okay, tell me, how was it that all the 9800 GT, 8800 GT, HD 4850 and the others cards from the older generation used to run using the same Vcore voltages (Unless it was some insanely Overclocked version] and why is it now that I see samples which operates at different Vcore voltages? Doesn't that mean that the TSMC manufacturing can't hold up to it's qualities like it used to, and to meet demands they are rushing out chips with uneven yields (of course all chips don't have the same yield but in this case even sub par chips are being sold?)? I know about the power leakage, and there are some confusions about this as well, I can show you a quote from an AMD rep that will make your head spin. and I quote:

    http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.p...8&postcount=29

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Baumann
    Actually, it does the opposite! We scale the voltage based on leakage, so the higher leakage parts use lower voltage and the lower leakage parts use a higher voltage - what this is does narrow the entire TDP range of the product.

    Everything is qualified at worst case anyway; all the TDP calcs and the fan settings are completed on the worse case for the product range.
    Isn't this the contrast of the popular belief?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by minitt View Post
    So, u automatically assumed that all GPUs in western countries have a high ASIC rating?

    The truth is ASIC is not dependable or reliable variable to determine chip quality. Only the board partners /TSMC/nvidia/AMD can conclusively say which chip is of higher quality.
    Yeah sure it's not dependable So why is it that ASICs with higher ratings are running with lower Vcore voltages and can clock higher than the ones that has lower ASIC rating products, without raising the voltages? And why is it that I am seeing that most of the cards that were bought from BD, these Sapphire, Gigabyte and MSI cards are of 70percent-ish ASIC quality? The samples that are different, most are bought from abroad, and the others are from ECS, one of the less renowned brands that people hardly recommends? Isn't that strange to you? And throughout the forums, this is a common discussion which I have seen, that those who bought the cards at launch, happens to be able to clock their cards better than the cards that were bought at recent times, explain that to me please? Maybe ASIC ratings are not reliable at all, so cards with 58% ASIC ratings that run at stock clocks while having a Vcore value set as close to an insanely overclocked factory overvolted edition of the same model is a good thing, yes?
    Last edited by Fox Mulder; September 20th, 2013 at 12:21.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fox Mulder View Post


    Yeah sure it's not dependable So why is it that ASICs with higher ratings are running with lower Vcore voltages and can clock higher than the ones that has lower ASIC rating products, without raising the voltages? And why is it that I am seeing that most of the cards that were bought from BD, these Sapphire, Gigabyte and MSI cards are of 70percent-ish ASIC quality? The three samples that are different, one was bought from abroad, and the other two are from ECS, one of the less renowned brands that people hardly recommends? Isn't that strange to you? And throughout the forums, this is a common discussion which I have seen, that those who bought the cards at launch, happens to be able to clock their cards better than the cards that were bought at recent times, explain that to me please?
    i bought my card from usa [with 3years warranty]
    bought it last year not recently
    brand is not ecs but its from sapphire
    i can oc it massively even thought its already an oc edition

    i got an asic score of 62.6
    ami chhoto amake marbenna.-_- shob _ buira_gamer_

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