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Thread: The mouse thread !

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    Default The mouse thread !

    Well seeing how the trend for people falling for marketing scam is getting bigger, Ive thought why not help you guys choose the perfect mouse for your needs without breaking your pocket !

    First of all Id like to start with, STOP spending money on SS xai and SS sensei, they are good mice with horrible sensors, huge amounts of acceleration kill that mouse, there is no reason why you should sell your deathadder (one of the best mice on this planet, can be even better with some mods!).

    Avoid mice with laser sensors if you are an fps gamers, dont be fooled by the gazzilion DPI rating and stuff like 1321313 x more precise than optical mouse, you dont need sensor precision for fps games what you need is high ips tracking speeds, and uniform acceleration of the sensor !

    What inaccurate acceleration can do is basically when you move the mouse faster the amount of distance required to do a 180 or 360 turn will be more or less depending on the acceleration.

    Now to the IPS, Ips is the tracking speed value measured in inches per second or at times meters per second

    39.37 inches= 1 meter.

    now there are two thresholds first is the perfect control speed (which is the speed at which the sensor tracks everything perfectly without any acceleration or anything)
    the other is the malfunction speed( at this point you are hitting speeds at which are beyond the perfect control and at one point the sensor will 'skip' 1G and 2G sensors are worst in this case, they usually tend to skip at about 40IPS and break beyond perfect control speed after 30IPS.) The deathadder i a benchmark in the max perfect control speed (4.14m/s ie over 160IPS on some mouse pads. This is what earned the deathadder the title for perfect mouse.

    Polling rate. Usually most mice have poilling toggles via switch or software, some great mice like the mx518 and the ie3 are 125hz at default, their performance dramatically increases after being overclocked to 500. I say 500 hz is the best polling rate, the compromise between cpu usage cycle and response time.

    Shape. One of the most important factors !

    To me the best shape is the diamondback from razer as I am a claw gripper, next would be the xai, I do like the shape of the deathadder.

    there are different styles of mouse grip

    For claw grippers I recommend:
    SS kana, Zowie AM, Razer abyssus, TTesports azurues mini or Saphira, Cm strom spwan and xornet(with newer firmwares though). there are a bunch more mice to chose from but ill keep my list short and uncomplicated.

    For Palm grippers

    Razer Deathadder, MS Ie3, Zowie EC2, TT azurues, a4tech x7 optical mice (with ADNS 3060 and 3080 sensors), SS ikari optical and MX 518.

    For fingertip grip

    Kinzu v2 pro edition, Razer salmosa, Razer abysuss, roccat pyra. Well basically fingertip grip is similar to claw grip but you guys would prefer using smaller mice if you use this style.

    Best sensors:
    ADNS-3688 and 3888, only available in razer mice and the only IR sensors on the market are truly the best aside from LOD.
    ADNS 3090- deathadder sensor for the mass market, although not as great but still on par, and the closest thing near to it.
    ADNS-3080- this is the mx518 sensor, one of the best from its era, not as good as the other two above but still very good, LOD is a bit lower than the other two but tracking speed is lower and will hit acceleration after about 2.5m/s has prediction
    ADNS 3060-has prediction
    ADNS 3050-entry level optical sensor with high tracking speed, good value for money, will suprisingly outperform ADNS-3888 if used with a white surface (only available on the cooler master Xornet and the logitech g100)

    STMelectronics sensor found in the MS mice such as the WMO IE3, I forgot the model number but these sensors have no prediction,truly are great sensors but have negative acceleration on some mouse pads which can be reduced after overclocking to 500hz or up.


    Avoid Phillips PTE, Avago 9500 and or any laser sensor.


    Mouse pads.
    If you like hard pads, Razer scarab or Razer Destructor - simply best tracking and also will offer lower LOD Steelseries Sx.

    Soft pads- Pure track Stealh, Razer Goliathus Control, Steelseries Qck, Xfx War pad.

    Hybrids- Razer megasoma(because of being a bright surface the LOD should be lower on some optical mice).




    Dont have the mentality that SS or razer are the only makers of pro gear, trust me they are commercial now and they dont even collaborate as they used to, I know all of you are going to say that the shape of the xai is epic and this is preferred by most gamers in bd but that is just a variation of the IE 1.1.
    SS have gone down the drain along with razer, the last great mouse from SS was the ikari optical. From razer it would be the death adder which is still in production.

    THE g400 is an optical mouse from logitech, but it does have some sensor issues and thus I did not recommend it.

    Zowie would be the only company left who actually care about gamers rather than enthusiasts. You can google them up they have good stuff, give them a good look.
    FTW!!!!!!!!!!

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    I had absolutely zero ideas about how some of these gaming mice works till I read this, thanks again Zulk! You've become my mentor once more, but surely there'll be gamers who might not agree with your preferences, but I find your guide very logical.

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    Default

    Yeah,saw some of your comments in TT FB page.

    Btw, what're the claw/fingertip/palm grips?


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    i think this shud b made sticky... Very informative
    @aayman bhaiya

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    Too much info! I just have a small question. I have Mamba 4G 2012 edition, Naga Epic 3.5G and Razer Vespula. Are these good enough?
    The abuse of greatness is when it disjoins remorse from power.
    Please do not PM me for support. You will NOT get a reply. Post in the relevant forum section.

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    Aside from the grips and recommended mice for certain grips the other facts about sensors are undeniable, I simply dont want to pay a premium price for a mouse with mediocre performance for example alot of people say that the z axis issue or for that fact the unpredictable accel in the avago 9500 laser can be coped up with, but why pay so much for a mouse with flaws when you can get a mouse for cheaper without those problems if you exclude gimmicks like lights and lcds. I want to help people not spend a fortune on gear and regret later on. Alot of people have invested on razers imperator including myself and after the day I got it ive been cursing razer !

    People if you still have your mx 518's or deathadders DO not sell them if you like the shape, I repeat do not ! These mice are exceptionally good.

    Last but not least thank you for the appreciation guys ^_^ !
    Last edited by eXsTatik; January 15th, 2012 at 22:37.
    FTW!!!!!!!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by eXsTatik View Post
    Alot of people have invested on razers imperator including myself and after the day I got it ive been cursing razer !
    Well, count me in on that. -.-

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    Quote Originally Posted by CvP View Post
    Too much info! I just have a small question. I have Mamba 4G 2012 edition, Naga Epic 3.5G and Razer Vespula. Are these good enough?
    Razers vespula is a good hard pad but can be a bit tough on the mouse feet, I recommend that you cover the feet with slick scotch tapes, it will give more friction but the speed side would fare well with the tapes as glides, alteast your mouse wont be damaged.

    The PTE itself is a good sensor aside from the garbage z axis tracking it exhibits, the mamba 4g shouldnt have the z axis problems as razers dual sensors have said to have gotten rid of these issues, but the naga should still have that, if you are playing fps I recommend that you get rid of either and get yourself a deathadder since you are used to a mamba. If you do want a good mouse for gaming, for other uses and looks theres nothing that beats the mamba Its all about what you need right ?

    But I still stick to my point that good ol optical sensors are the best, most people who play fps and know their mice will agree with this, if you dont believe me go check Overclock.net forums. Also check this vid it should give you an Idea of what the z axis tracking is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZhFKOq8CM8

    ---------- Post added at 21:47 ---------- Previous post was at 21:44 ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by error View Post
    Well, count me in on that. -.-
    Lol I prefer my x7 spider over the imperator, Im currently using a TT azurues bought off from @Darkthrone . Its pretty darn good! I m loving this mouse, it does have some mild prediction but I think im better off with mice with prediction rather than the ones that dont, what really bothers me is acceleration and LOD issues, since I do use a very low sens, I also reach 1.8 m/s swipe speed so I need good tracking speed as well so this mouse totally ticks the boxes that suit me, I really dont need side buttons so the lack of two buttons dont bother me as much as it would others.
    Last edited by eXsTatik; January 15th, 2012 at 22:59.
    FTW!!!!!!!!!!

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    im planning on buying an a4 tech x7 antivibrant (don't know the model just the name and the pic in the box is of splinter cell ) one... Can u suggest me a gud mouse pad within 500/= ??
    Sorry if it was wrong of me to post 4 suggestion in this thread :s

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by eXsTatik View Post
    Razers vespula is a good hard pad but can be a bit tough on the mouse feet, I recommend that you cover the feet with slick scotch tapes, it will give more friction but the speed side would fare well with the tapes as glides, alteast your mouse wont be damaged.

    The PTE itself is a good sensor aside from the garbage z axis tracking it exhibits, the mamba 4g shouldnt have the z axis problems as razers dual sensors have said to have gotten rid of these issues, but the naga should still have that, if you are playing fps I recommend that you get rid of either and get yourself a deathadder since you are used to a mamba. If you do want a good mouse for gaming, for other uses and looks theres nothing that beats the mamba Its all about what you need right ?

    But I still stick to my point that good ol optical sensors are the best, most people who play fps and know their mice will agree with this, if you dont believe me go check Overclock.net forums. Also check this vid it should give you an Idea of what the z axis tracking is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZhFKOq8CM8
    I'm using the vespula speed side; not control side. So it should be more gentle on the feets. Got extra set of feets ready too; so that is not an issue for me.

    Mamba has a lift-off range setting. Increasing it makes it work while lifting off and decreasing it makes it not move at all during lift off. So I guess it is ok.
    Naga for Dota/Dota2.

    Why would you suggest deathadder? Isn't mamba superior to the adder?
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    I'm thinking about getting an X7 since its the only mouse within my current budget.

    I do not play FPS, I play League of Legends... which is like DotA and sometimes I play StarCraft 2.

    So what is your thoughts on an X7's performance with a game like DotA/SC2?



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    Xai/Sensei has like 5% acceleration, if you think you can see it then its placebo.

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    If Zulk bhaiya is right then why to all pro CS players use Xai/Sensei? Cod r kotha bad dilam cod e ato tracking lagena.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aayman View Post
    Xai/Sensei has like 5% acceleration, if you think you can see it then its placebo.
    LOL go check forums, Ive also owned a xai and since I used very low sensitivity it was even worse. The worst part is its pad dependent, also check the OCN forums. Optical sensors are still better, thats why I say why pay more for something inferior ?

    ---------- Post added at 00:51 ---------- Previous post was at 00:43 ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by EviL AnGeL View Post
    If Zulk bhaiya is right then why to all pro CS players use Xai/Sensei? Cod r kotha bad dilam cod e ato tracking lagena.
    Which pro players do you speak of ? if your talking about bd players I think its because of the shape. It has the best shape amongst mice IMO. but the worst of sensors. :\

    @CvP the Deathadder is a legend, while there are forum full of complaints about the mamba LOL. @dipanzan I think you can clear up the misconceptions here.


    For league of legends you dont really need to worry about z axis and all that since what you need is the mouse being able to cope up to your APM right ? the x7 is a good choice it has good responsive buttons, fairly high dpi although the 2000+ setting is interpolated. Build quality sucks however .
    Its built around the avago ADNS- 6010 which is a first gen laser sensor, works alright on hard pads, will skip on cloth.


    @aayman
    "Sensor Quality

    As I have already mentioned in my other reviews, this is the most important part of a mouse in my opinion and I'm extremely sensitive to unwanted tracking bugs. The Sensei uses the same A9500 laser sensor as the Xai which I have owned for about a year now so I wasn't expecting anything different tracking wise. I'm not sure if Steelseries tweaked the sensor or if my Xai was defective but this Sensei has no problem tracking at high speeds on my cloth pads while my Xai and my G500 (same sensor) display large amounts of negative acceleration during fast swipes. Even on my worn Puretrak Talent from 2009 the Sensei was able to achieve a much higher perfect control speed than the Xai at the same CPI and polling rate. I don't think Enotus mouse test is accurate because the results are all over the place but if anyone is interested the highest speed I was able to reach on the Talent was 4.45m/s (AKA more than anyone needs ). (1800CPI @ 500hz)

    Unfortunately since Steelseries decided to stick with the same A9500 sensor, the small amount of inconsistent positive acceleration is still there taunting me as the only true flaw of this mouse. Is it so much acceleration that it destroys my aim? No. Does it bother me? Yes. Will it bother you? Maybe, but after trying to convince countless users of the acceleration present in the sensor I really doubt it. I believe everyone has a higher potential with a sensor that is consistent and this sensor simply isn't. Everything else about the sensor is flawless though, no strange tracking bugs (see my Mico review) no jitter and a very low and adjustable lift off distance."

    taken from
    http://www.overclock.net/t/1165120/s...-sensei-review
    FTW!!!!!!!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by eXsTatik View Post
    LOL go check forums, Ive also owned a xai and since I used very low sensitivity it was even worse. The worst part is its pad dependent, also check the OCN forums. Optical sensors are still better, thats why I say why pay more for something inferior ?
    I have checked forums, and people will always make big deals out of this when they aren't, I believe some acceleration is needed for laser mice. Z axis issue is one thing and such small acceleration is another. You owned a defective Xai remember? And I can also recall that you yourself said that till then Xai had the best tracking (from what you had seen).

    SS themselves said that Xai works best with the 9HD, so why not get that. I still remember the awesome glide I used to get with it but not everyone could handle it. Like @dipanzan gave it a shot and didn't like it, and Wasi bhai loved it for Dota which is why he kept my 9HD for like 6 months

    Either way, 5% isn't a big deal and you will still be able to build great muscle memory because even the little acceleration remains constant and as long as that consistency is there your game will be unaffected.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aayman View Post
    I have checked forums, and people will always make big deals out of this when they aren't, I believe some acceleration is needed for laser mice. Z axis issue is one thing and such small acceleration is another. You owned a defective Xai remember? And I can also recall that you yourself said that till then Xai had the best tracking (from what you had seen).

    SS themselves said that Xai works best with the 9HD, so why not get that. I still remember the awesome glide I used to get with it but not everyone could handle it. Like @dipanzan gave it a shot and didn't like it, and Wasi bhai loved it for Dota which is why he kept my 9HD for like 6 months

    Either way, 5% isn't a big deal and you will still be able to build great muscle memory because even the little acceleration remains constant and as long as that consistency is there your game will be unaffected.
    LOL it has an inconsistent sensor, xai works great with hard pads, accel issues are less, I did like the shape of the xai, aiming with it felt like I was aiming with my fingertips, but at fast swipes it did go haywire.

    Anyhow Id not like to start a flame war, if people like the xai or sensei sure they can buy one, but what Im saying is why buy a mouse with more money with bugs ? the acceleration is an issue with these laser mice, the sensei has low accel but the xai has alot of it. this is because the sensei uses a newer version of the 9500.

    That defect was present in all xai's it was a problem with the first batch of xai's because the 9500's were relatively new then, I used it on a destructor pad so it was pretty good there. The problem with my xai was jittering on cloth pads, which were also present in the early firmware 3.5G razer infrared sensors. :\
    Last edited by eXsTatik; January 16th, 2012 at 02:02.
    FTW!!!!!!!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by eXsTatik View Post
    LOL it has an inconsistent sensor, xai works great with hard pads, accel issues are less, I did like the shape of the xai, aiming with it felt like I was aiming with my fingertips, but at fast swipes it did go haywire.

    Anyhow Id not like to start a flame war, if people like the xai or sensei sure they can buy one, but what Im saying is why buy a mouse with more money with bugs ? the acceleration is an issue with these laser mice, the sensei has low accel but the xai has alot of it. this is because the sensei uses a newer version of the 9500.
    The issues have to be present in actual use and ingame or there's just no point in making a fuss about it.

    Like I said, you won't notice the small acceleration unless you do some tests, then afterwards the problem is more mental than physical.

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    The thing is in practice it does affect people who are sensitive to acceleration. low sensitive players who swipre fast, other than the accel issues the sensei is a pretty good mouse. :\ trust me it does affect in game, not all the time but when swiping fast it can be an issue.
    FTW!!!!!!!!!!

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    First thing I did is to turn off acceleration in Mamba's control panel and it is good to go
    The abuse of greatness is when it disjoins remorse from power.
    Please do not PM me for support. You will NOT get a reply. Post in the relevant forum section.

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    Lol thats software driven acceleration, the one im talking about is sensor based, its due to the sensor not coping up with the acceleration of your hand, was a big issue with early laser sensors, the PTE doesnt have accel but what you want to look for is the z axis issue, if thats present in teh 4g mice then what the hell are razer still doing :\ zzzz
    FTW!!!!!!!!!!

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