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Thread: First Matches

  1. #1
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    Default First Matches

    I just got SC2 yesterday, and have only started playing. Here is a replay of my first game as Protoss.

    Flame as Protoss

    I need much practice. : /



  2. #2

    Default Re: First Matches

    Gotta go out now, but i'll check it out and throw down some tips if you want when im back I play toss too
    Formerly Id.l2eaper. add me up on SC2 EU server for practice/fun games or chattin! Hivemind.952

  3. #3
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    Default Re: First Matches

    Yes, I'd like some very much. I still need to get things like build order, supply managing, etc fixed.

    Here's another one I lost. :/

    PvT Flame



  4. #4

    Default Re: First Matches

    First I'll comment on your game on delta quadrant against elmo.

    • at 0:55'ish, 9/10 food, you'll notice that if you hadnt queued the 10th probe you could have made a pylon at 9/10 supply. This is optimal as it allows you to produce probes nonstop. as you can see at 1:20, you are supply blocked, and the probe isnt able to be produced

      at 1:50, 12/18 supply, you have 4 probes in queue. Thats 4*50 = 200 minerals. If you hadnt queued extra probes and were only making one, you would have 150 extra minerals. That means at that moment, you had enough money to make a gateway, but it was sitting unused in the form of queued probes. This slows you down a lot, so try to never queue when you could use the money elsewhere.

      at 2:34 you have 5 probes queued. again, thats another pylon and gas that could be already being built, but arent.

      Your gateway finishes at 3:30, however your cyber core is not started right after, instead you make 2 more gateways. All terran units are ranged, zealots are not, so thats a bad move. If terran makes any marauders with slow, they can take down infinite numbers of slow zealots by kiting


    After watching this far, it seems you dont have a grasp of RTS gaming basics yet, so i strongly recommend you watch this video Day[9] Daily #132 - Back to the Basics: The Mental Checklist


    And as many of Day[9]'s videos as possible. He teaches how to play sc2 and what mindset to have VERY clearly and thoroughly, and anyone who wants to play better can benefit from his vids.
    Hope this helps, feel free to ask any specific questions and i'll try my best to help out!
    Formerly Id.l2eaper. add me up on SC2 EU server for practice/fun games or chattin! Hivemind.952

  5. #5
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    Default Re: First Matches

    Yeah, I know. I haven't been playing playing RTS for months now. I was a pretty good WC3 player, but now am wayy out of form.

    For now, I'm basically trying to do either a 2 Gate > Robo for Zealot/Stalkers/Collosus or a 4 Gate > Robo for Zealot/Stalkers/Immortal build. I still have to get used to keeping track of time using supply limit. That's one thing we didn't use to macro in WC3, supply came as a reflex there.

    Also, I need some help in grouping. For now I keep all my units on 1 and buildings I'm confused about.

    Thanks for the tips. Really appreciated.

    ---------- Post added at 14:38 ---------- Previous post was at 14:08 ----------

    Played another one, took your advice. And I think I did better than those two games.

    PvP Flame



  6. #6

    Default Re: First Matches

    Before I comment on your post, lemme comment on your new PvP I'll do so in a very disorganized way and go on rants, hope you dont mind

    1:09 seconds into the game, when your tenth probe is making, you had 10/10 supply and you chrono boosted a probe. at 1:15 this caused you to become supply blocked, and the chrono boost after that point is being wasted. Try to chrono boost after the pylon is finished, that way your entire chrono boost will be useful

    at 1:45 into the game, 11/18 supply, you put down your gateway. However when you do so, you have no probe building, and have an extra 95 minerals. Try to ALWAYS have your nexus flashing, probes producing nonstop! This is ESSENTIAL to being a good player, if you learn this early on you'll have a much easier time improving in the future, because constantly producing workers is a huge block to players at a higher level who want to improve.

    you put down a pylon at 18/18, when you are already supply blocked. because of this your minerals go up, and you cant properly spend them fast enough. Not getting supply blocked is another one of those essential components of getting better at sc2

    Scouting! 5:09 minutes into the game you have still not seen your opponent. Sc2 is a game about information, more so then actual strategy. The one with good execution AND insight into what his enemy is doing will always always beat someone who has good execution and a set plan that he doesnt diverge from
    always try to see what he is doing, and react to it.

    If you scouted him, you'd notice he got a forge and cannon up before even getting units. Immediately that should tell you two things

    1) He is very well defended, I cannot break him with units
    2) I cannot attack him, and he cannot attack me

    So seeing as you cant break him, and he cant attack you, what are the best options?
    The best options are to stop making army and army producing structures, and instead focus on something else
    if you cant attack him, and he cant attack you head on, why do you need an army right now?
    Two things you could do with your money instead of making fighting units, is to either boost your economy, or advance your tech very fast.
    If you go for boosting your economy, you can get an expansion without making any units. Just probes and then a nexus, and then after thats up and running, transfer probes from your main to there so theres an even split, and keep chrono boosting probes from both nexii while slamming down a ton of gates or w/e. Doesnt matter what you do after that point, as long as you spend all your money and make ¤¤¤¤, your huge economic advantage will crush him.

    OR

    you can go for advancing your tech super fast. If he doesnt have units to attack with, means you dont need units or structures to defend with, means you can spend all your money and chrono boost on tech. So instead of getting any units at all you can, for example, just immediately get a robotics facility, a robotics bay, and the colossus with its range upgrade before even making any units, just spending all your money on getting tech structures fast, then spending all your chrono boost on those structures. after that you will be ahead in tech of him, so you can either attack him right then and there, or use your tech advantage to secure a very safe and powerful base/economy advantage. In PvP especially, but also in every matchup toss has, if you are ahead in tech your army is usually more powerful, even if your tech units dont have much of a gateway unit backup army.

    around 7:20 into the game you get a stargate after you already have a robo.
    Unless you are planning a solid all-in strategy, its never a good idea to get more then one type of tech structure while you are still on 1 base. The reason for this is that if you are playing well and spending all your money, making probes constantly and not getting supply blocked, you wont have enough gas on 1 base to support making 2 types of tech units or upgrades. Generally, you will wanna decide before the game what you want to do, and then carry it out in the most efficient manner possible.
    So if you're going robo, stick to robo with gate units, or if you're going SG, stick to that with gateway units. Dont try to branch out on one base, as if you are playing properly, it'll leave you too weak unit-wise
    The simplest way to put it is, its better to have 4 stalkers, 4 zealots and 2 colossus instead of 1 stalker 1 zealot a colossus a void ray an immortal and a templar with storm, even though the cost would be about the same

    Anyway, at around 6:00 he puts up a sneaky expansion at the gold. At lower level, people will always try to play sneaky instead of straight up beat you, so try to always keep a probe near the watchtowers to give you map vision. if you had seen that expansion you could have crushed it right away as he had no forces. Having map awareness is always important, otherwise your opponent will be allowed to do things he doesnt logically have the power to do!

    You are very passive in this game, and you hardly check what hes doing at all. Keep sending probes or observers to check his army strength, if his army is not as strong as yours, then just crush him

    Stargate units are tough to time and tough to use (microwise and multitask wise) so I wouldnt recommend using them till you can multitask better

    you have a LOT of unspent minerals throughout the game, when there is no reason to have them
    got money? Make structures! Gateways, robos, nexuses, go ¤¤¤¤in nuts if you want to, but that money sitting in the bank is hurting you, no matter WHAT you spend it on its better to spend it then to let it just gather up

    at around 21 minutes, you ROFLSTOMP his army with yours. This means you are free to expand! Definitely try to expand more, always try to expand more then feels safe, and if it gets killed, check the replay and ask yourself 'why?'

    22:00 you have still not seen most of his side of the map more then once! BE MORE AGGRESSIVE ALL THE TIME!

    The best way to improve is to pick something you arent doing, or arent doing enough, and then overdoing it. After that you can check replay and say 'ok im overdoing this, i need to calm down' and then scale back a bit. And keep doing this till you become familiar with good timings to be aggressive and expand

    at 24:24, you have 4000 minerals 1418 gas and TWO GATEWAYS! 4000 divided by 150 is 26 or so, thats 26 gateways. You could have had another 26 gateways with that money, and as soon as your army dies use your massive amount of gateways and massive amount of saved money to instantly reproduce a 200/200 food army! Always keep adding gateways as the game grows longer, do NOT let yourself bank money

    Thats all i got for now, i'll try to find some good replays for you to steal build orders from


    Quote Originally Posted by Flame View Post
    Yeah, I know. I haven't been playing playing RTS for months now. I was a pretty good WC3 player, but now am wayy out of form.

    For now, I'm basically trying to do either a 2 Gate > Robo for Zealot/Stalkers/Collosus or a 4 Gate > Robo for Zealot/Stalkers/Immortal build. I still have to get used to keeping track of time using supply limit. That's one thing we didn't use to macro in WC3, supply came as a reflex there.

    Also, I need some help in grouping. For now I keep all my units on 1 and buildings I'm confused about.

    Thanks for the tips. Really appreciated.

    ---------- Post added at 14:38 ---------- Previous post was at 14:08 ----------

    Played another one, took your advice. And I think I did better than those two games.

    PvP Flame
    I'd suggest that you go 3 gate -> expand into whatever against all 3 races. It is extremely solid, and I'm still doing 3 gate FE (FE = fast expand) against zerg and terran. Playing pvp at a higher level is annoying and complicated to say the least, but until you get to diamond 3 gate FE will serve you just fine. I'll try to make some replays of how to 3 gate FE and upload them here later
    About hotkeys, I use 3 for all my nexuses, 4 for all my warpgates, 1-2 for army, 5 for robo 6 for stargate 789 for specialist units (phoenix, DT, sentry, etc) and 0 for a structure thats upgrading so i can chrono boost it and check the update time left :>
    Last edited by TheAntZ; January 9th, 2011 at 20:05.
    Formerly Id.l2eaper. add me up on SC2 EU server for practice/fun games or chattin! Hivemind.952

  7. #7
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    Default Re: First Matches

    WOW! That is one big post!

    Thank you so much for spending time on me.

    I was basically not scouting cause I was fully focused on macroing my base (though I was failing). So will have to improve there.
    And, I wasn't making structures late game cause, well, I thought, that I wont need that many Gateways. Seems I was wrong, unit mass plays a more important role here.

    Thanks so much for the advice.
    I'll be playing more, and the next replay I post will hopefully be much better.



  8. #8

    Default Re: First Matches

    np! In fact I check these forums like 20-30 times a day and its disappointing to not see much discussion lol, so im more than happy to help out where I can! Tomorrow when I'm home and free I'm going to put together a bunch of guides from Teamliquid.net and post it here to help people improve from RTS beginner to diamond
    Formerly Id.l2eaper. add me up on SC2 EU server for practice/fun games or chattin! Hivemind.952

  9. #9

    Default Re: First Matches

    nice read.
    Its AIM. Not GG AIM, GG_AIM or GG.

  10. #10

    Default Re: First Matches

    lol wow very helpful. Is flame playing on the US server? Or can you join me aim and hive on the EU servers?

  11. #11
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    Default Re: First Matches

    I have the SEA Version, so I can access SEA and NA servers.

    ---------- Post added at 22:27 ---------- Previous post was at 15:12 ----------

    Well, thanks to the advice, I got my very first win.

    PvP Flame Win



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