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Thread: RIP in PIECES AMD MANTOL 1.0

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    Default RIP in PIECES AMD MANTOL 1.0

    AMD's Mantle 1.0 is dead; long live DirectX

    Gordon Mah Ung @gordon ung


    • Mar 2, 2015 3:54 PM
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    AMD’s Mantle “1.0” is dead. Long live Mantle 1.0.
    After just a year and a half, AMD appears to be sunsetting its “revolutionary” originalMantle gaming API as we know it, according to a blog post written by Raja Koduri, VP of Visual and Perceptual computing at AMD.
    “...[I]f you are a developer interested in Mantle “1.0” functionality, we suggest that you focus your attention on DirectX 12 or GLnext,” Korduri writes.
    Korduri said AMD will no longer release Mantle 1.0 as a public SDK as originally intended, which many will take to mean that that is the end of it as an alternative to DirectX12 and the new OpenGL standards. As a consolation prize, AMD did release a 450-page programming guide the company hopes will stimulate better APIs down the road. The company also said it would continue to support any Mantle partners with its full resources.
    One of the more high profile games that helped boost Mantle was Battlefield 4 support.
    If this sounds like Mantle’s swan song, that’s not entirely clear. What is clear is Koduri and AMD want developers to move from Mantle “1.0” to DirectX or the new OpenGL. He doesn’t say Mantle is finished, and he even says it will continue on.
    “Mantle must take on new capabilities and evolve beyond mastery of the draw call. It will continue to serve AMD as a graphics innovation platform available to select partners with custom needs,” he wrote.
    Korduri said more information on where Mantle is headed would be made public this Thursday at the Game Developer’s Conference in San Francisco.
    Where Mantle goes from here isn’t clear—perhaps as a private label API for developers who want cutting edge features DirectX and OpenGL can’t provide, or test beds for new features. But it was unlikely to fulfill its original mission anyway. AMD announced the new API in the fall of 2013 to address inefficiencies in Microsoft’s DirectX11 and OpenGL. And Mantle’s most promising feature was addressing OpenGL and DX’s inability to use CPU cores very effectively—something that DirectX should do much better in its latest version.
    Mantle 1.0’s biggest legacy will be improved draw calls for better gaming performance.
    Despite the low odds that an API developed by only one of the hardware markers would go very far, AMD actually racked up a fairly impressive number of wins including Battlefield 4. AMD said today that there are five game engines and 10 premium games or applications that support Mantle 1.0.
    Without the support of its arch-rival Nvidia though, it was never destined to become the default API of choice, even with the interest of Intel at one point.
    If this is the obit for Mantle though, it did succeed in changing many things. At the time Mantle was sketched out, Microsoft had no plans to develop DirectX 12, which, for the most part has addressed the CPU inefficiency Mantle did. OpenGL is also expected to modernize to keep relevant with DirectX12 and Mantle.
    The CPU efficiency issue isn’t the only drawback Mantle addressed that looks to be addressed by competitors. Mantle also sketched out fixes for multiple GPU systems that could be adopted too. In DirectX11, having two video cards with 4GB of RAM doesn’t give you 8GB of graphics memory to work with because of the way the API is designed. With Mantle, AMD has said, it’s different: multiple cards would not need to mirror each other’s RAM, so 8GB of graphics RAM could be used more efficiently.
    Tom’s Hardware recently reported that a similar feature would be implemented in DirectX 12. AMD, Nvidia and Microsoft officials declined to comment.
    Why this matters: If this is the end of Mantle 1.0 as we know it, it will have achieved what it needed to do—and that’s get Microsoft and OpenGL’s Khronos to finally move forward and faster on graphics APIs that have been holding back PC gaming.


    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Gentleman View Post
    AMD's Mantle 1.0 is dead; long live DirectX






    AMD’s Mantle “1.0” is dead. Long live Mantle 1.0.
    After just a year and a half, AMD appears to be sunsetting its “revolutionary” originalMantle gaming API as we know it, according to a blog post written by Raja Koduri, VP of Visual and Perceptual computing at AMD.
    “...[I]f you are a developer interested in Mantle “1.0” functionality, we suggest that you focus your attention on DirectX 12 or GLnext,” Korduri writes.
    Korduri said AMD will no longer release Mantle 1.0 as a public SDK as originally intended, which many will take to mean that that is the end of it as an alternative to DirectX12 and the new OpenGL standards. As a consolation prize, AMD did release a 450-page programming guide the company hopes will stimulate better APIs down the road. The company also said it would continue to support any Mantle partners with its full resources.
    One of the more high profile games that helped boost Mantle was Battlefield 4 support.
    If this sounds like Mantle’s swan song, that’s not entirely clear. What is clear is Koduri and AMD want developers to move from Mantle “1.0” to DirectX or the new OpenGL. He doesn’t say Mantle is finished, and he even says it will continue on.
    “Mantle must take on new capabilities and evolve beyond mastery of the draw call. It will continue to serve AMD as a graphics innovation platform available to select partners with custom needs,” he wrote.
    Korduri said more information on where Mantle is headed would be made public this Thursday at the Game Developer’s Conference in San Francisco.
    Where Mantle goes from here isn’t clear—perhaps as a private label API for developers who want cutting edge features DirectX and OpenGL can’t provide, or test beds for new features. But it was unlikely to fulfill its original mission anyway. AMD announced the new API in the fall of 2013 to address inefficiencies in Microsoft’s DirectX11 and OpenGL. And Mantle’s most promising feature was addressing OpenGL and DX’s inability to use CPU cores very effectively—something that DirectX should do much better in its latest version.
    Mantle 1.0’s biggest legacy will be improved draw calls for better gaming performance.
    Despite the low odds that an API developed by only one of the hardware markers would go very far, AMD actually racked up a fairly impressive number of wins including Battlefield 4. AMD said today that there are five game engines and 10 premium games or applications that support Mantle 1.0.
    Without the support of its arch-rival Nvidia though, it was never destined to become the default API of choice, even with the interest of Intel at one point.
    If this is the obit for Mantle though, it did succeed in changing many things. At the time Mantle was sketched out, Microsoft had no plans to develop DirectX 12, which, for the most part has addressed the CPU inefficiency Mantle did. OpenGL is also expected to modernize to keep relevant with DirectX12 and Mantle.
    The CPU efficiency issue isn’t the only drawback Mantle addressed that looks to be addressed by competitors. Mantle also sketched out fixes for multiple GPU systems that could be adopted too. In DirectX11, having two video cards with 4GB of RAM doesn’t give you 8GB of graphics memory to work with because of the way the API is designed. With Mantle, AMD has said, it’s different: multiple cards would not need to mirror each other’s RAM, so 8GB of graphics RAM could be used more efficiently.
    Tom’s Hardware recently reported that a similar feature would be implemented in DirectX 12. AMD, Nvidia and Microsoft officials declined to comment.
    Why this matters: If this is the end of Mantle 1.0 as we know it, it will have achieved what it needed to do—and that’s get Microsoft and OpenGL’s Khronos to finally move forward and faster on graphics APIs that have been holding back PC gaming.

    BG wont let me edit post -_-

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    I smell bulshevik from Microsoft

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    R.i.p

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    There is not point developing Mantle when DX12 and Vulkan will do basically the same thing.

    While I agree DX12 was probably in development before Mantle I think its very unlikely they were addressing these issues in this way without the competition.

    Giddy can be traced back to the same Germanic root *gud– that has given us the word God

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gentleman View Post
    BG wont let me edit post -_-
    Sorry about the issue. I have a fix for it; just need a day or two free to implement it (along with tons of other interconnected things)

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by GiDDY_SOUL View Post
    There is not point developing Mantle when DX12 and Vulkan will do basically the same thing.

    While I agree DX12 was probably in development before Mantle I think its very unlikely they were addressing these issues in this way without the competition.
    That'd be wrong. You study in CS and you should know better. Implementing SFR and close-to-metal APIs are not something you just introduce in the middle and expect one of the most complex software projects in the whole world to go smoothly. DX development follows waterfall model; not agile.

    However, it can't be denied that Mantle has a huge effect on the whole thing (in a good way).
    The abuse of greatness is when it disjoins remorse from power.
    Please do not PM me for support. You will NOT get a reply. Post in the relevant forum section.

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    @CvP Wrong on which point? DX12 being developed before mantle Or mantle and Dx 12 doing the same thing?
    Last edited by GiDDY_SOUL; March 4th, 2015 at 20:50.

    Giddy can be traced back to the same Germanic root *gud– that has given us the word God

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    Quote Originally Posted by GiDDY_SOUL View Post
    @CvP Wrong on which point? DX12 being developed before mantle Or mantle and Dx 12 doing the same thing?

    i think he meant editing issues ........... not mantol ..........but damn u microsoft ...

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    it is good stuff. MS can do a lot more with their DirectX API than AMD alone can do. But either ways, we are so far away from seeing the real benefits of DX 12. Probably a couple of years away before we see the engines really taking advantage of low level API in pc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GiDDY_SOUL View Post
    @CvP Wrong on which point? DX12 being developed before mantle Or mantle and Dx 12 doing the same thing?
    >
    Quote Originally Posted by GiDDY_SOUL View Post
    I think its very unlikely they were addressing these issues in this way without the competition.


    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
    it is good stuff. MS can do a lot more with their DirectX API than AMD alone can do. But either ways, we are so far away from seeing the real benefits of DX 12. Probably a couple of years away before we see the engines really taking advantage of low level API in pc.
    I don't think so. All major engines will support DX12 really fast. It is not like they have to wait until Win10 release to start integrating; they have access to DX12 from long ago.

    It'd say you will see games partially utilizing DX12 by the end of this year and utilizing it to full extent by Q2/3 next year.
    The abuse of greatness is when it disjoins remorse from power.
    Please do not PM me for support. You will NOT get a reply. Post in the relevant forum section.

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    It is MANTLE not MANTOL or MENTHOL!!

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    > mfw people dont get sarcasm
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    It is mental treat from AMD to its FB

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