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Thread: Devil's Canyon - Boradwell-K - Skylake. Is it a good time for upgrade?

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    Default Devil's Canyon - Boradwell-K - Skylake. Is it a good time for upgrade?

    My current system is now 6.5 years old. And as I plan to use a new system 5+ years and tend to go for major upgrades after 6-7 years, I had plan to go for an upgrade January 2015. Skylake was supposed to come out that time and everything was well untill Intel started delaying their 14nm process and now I am running out of patience.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	mt9lc3.jpg 
Views:	3266 
Size:	269.2 KB 
ID:	35276

    According to the above leaked image of intel's latest roadmap, I have 3 options now, 1. get a Devils Canyon (Haswell-K) now, 2. wait until around April-May and get either a Broadwell-K or a Skylake (Non-K) or wait indefinitely (probably untill end of 2015) for a Skylake-K.

    I believe waiting for a Broadwell-K insted of getting Devil's Canyon is pointless, as Intel only promises 3-4% IPC improvement for Broadwell. And over pure speculation and past observation on Sandy Bridge and Ivy Bridge I think Broadwell-K is going to be even less overclockable than Devil's Canyon.

    Now Skylake is a different thing. It might not have huge performance increases as well (I've heard speculations of single digit IPC improvements there too), bt there are too many changes coming, including mainstream DDR4. It's like the upgrade from Core 2 to Core i series (Nehalem). But it's still an indefinite amount of time for Skylake-K, and from some speculation, Intel might as well skip Skylake-K and go directly to Cannonlake-K from Broadwell-K.

    A note here, my previous upgrade was also the last gen of 45nm Core 2, just months before Nehalem came out. At first I regretted it, but it seems Core 2 has outlived Nehalem both in availibilty and usability. The real upgrade performancewise was Sandy Bridge.

    But my biggest concern is the Skylake's mainstream implementation of DDR4. If that happens, and suddenly DDR3 becomes obsolete and unavailable in the market, then getting a Haswell/Broadwell now and then trying to upgrade/replace/RMA memory in the future would be difficult. It's the same problem that happened with DDR2 for me, which forced me to change my motherboard to get DDR3 support. But with Intel's "Faizlami" with sockets since Nehalem that might be impossible too.

    TL;DR: Should I get a Devil's Canyon now, Wait 4-5 months for Broadwell-K or Wait even more for Skylake-K for a build that I can use for 5+ years?

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    Quote Originally Posted by aaz_swapnil View Post
    TL;DR: Should I get a Devil's Canyon now, Wait 4-5 months for Broadwell-K or Wait even more for Skylake-K for a build that I can use for 5+ years?
    Honestly speaking, I never understood the point of "waiting for next release".
    By the time it is released, there will be another announcement. So what will you do? wait some more? and then some more? to eternity?
    Last edited by Badhon_raj; December 21st, 2014 at 11:41.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aaz_swapnil View Post
    My current system is now 6.5 years old. And as I plan to use a new system 5+ years and tend to go for major upgrades after 6-7 years, I had plan to go for an upgrade January 2015. Skylake was supposed to come out that time and everything was well untill Intel started delaying their 14nm process and now I am running out of patience.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	mt9lc3.jpg 
Views:	3266 
Size:	269.2 KB 
ID:	35276

    According to the above leaked image of intel's latest roadmap, I have 3 options now, 1. get a Devils Canyon (Haswell-K) now, 2. wait until around April-May and get either a Broadwell-K or a Skylake (Non-K) or wait indefinitely (probably untill end of 2015) for a Skylake-K.

    I believe waiting for a Broadwell-K insted of getting Devil's Canyon is pointless, as Intel only promises 3-4% IPC improvement for Broadwell. And over pure speculation and past observation on Sandy Bridge and Ivy Bridge I think Broadwell-K is going to be even less overclockable than Devil's Canyon.

    Now Skylake is a different thing. It might not have huge performance increases as well (I've heard speculations of single digit IPC improvements there too), bt there are too many changes coming, including mainstream DDR4. It's like the upgrade from Core 2 to Core i series (Nehalem). But it's still an indefinite amount of time for Skylake-K, and from some speculation, Intel might as well skip Skylake-K and go directly to Cannonlake-K from Broadwell-K.

    A note here, my previous upgrade was also the last gen of 45nm Core 2, just months before Nehalem came out. At first I regretted it, but it seems Core 2 has outlived Nehalem both in availibilty and usability. The real upgrade performancewise was Sandy Bridge.

    But my biggest concern is the Skylake's mainstream implementation of DDR4. If that happens, and suddenly DDR3 becomes obsolete and unavailable in the market, then getting a Haswell/Broadwell now and then trying to upgrade/replace/RMA memory in the future would be difficult. It's the same problem that happened with DDR2 for me, which forced me to change my motherboard to get DDR3 support. But with Intel's "Faizlami" with sockets since Nehalem that might be impossible too.

    TL;DR: Should I get a Devil's Canyon now, Wait 4-5 months for Broadwell-K or Wait even more for Skylake-K for a build that I can use for 5+ years?

    few weeks ago i was thinking about upgrading my system too and were considering the same options as you have mentioned. Then i decided to hold my breath a lil longer. I have a i5 750 clocked at 4.0ghz (1st gen nehalem).To me, upgrading to 4790K didn't seem very efficient. Too expensive for too little performance increase.
    But a 4790K will surely improve your minimum fps to a good extent. But one of the precondition of getting a 4790K would be having a decent GPU.

    In my case, im still bottlenecked by my 780 and surprisingly not by my really old cpu.My plan is to wait till brodwell gets released and then get the 4790K. By then its' price will fall a bit and provide a better bang for the buck.

    My guess is Brodwell will be 10% better than 4790K at best.

    If i was in ur shoe i would've gone for 4790K and a decent OC frindly full ATX MB.

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    Yeah mid-2015 will be great time to upgrade, I think at that point DDR3 and DDR4 ram will have roughly same price. And I heard intel might release some broadwell i5 models without IGP, and others with Iris pro, so it should be cost efficient for those who don't want useless IGP. I'm also looking to upgrade in Q3 '15.

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    i dont think broadwell K will bring even 10% improvement since originally broadwell was not supposed to have desktop versions.

    I also think Skylake K will be delayed till 2016.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by shawon0418 View Post
    Yeah mid-2015 will be great time to upgrade, I think at that point DDR3 and DDR4 ram will have roughly same price. And I heard intel might release some broadwell i5 models without IGP, and others with Iris pro, so it should be cost efficient for those who don't want useless IGP. I'm also looking to upgrade in Q3 '15.
    no way. ddr4 will have premiums till late 2016 at least.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Badhon_raj View Post
    Honestly speaking, I never understood the point of "waiting for next release".
    By the time it is released, there will be another announcement. So what will you do? wait some more? and then some more? to eternity?
    i dont blame him since many people are actually waiting for Skylake. But by the looks of it, Skylake unlocked versions might be delayed till 2016 and even then, the performance improvements might not be worthwhile.

    The thing is we are not cpu bound anymore like we used to be. Also there is no further scope of big cpu performance increase with current silicons.

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    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
    no way. ddr4 will have premiums till late 2016 at least.
    Price is already close
    http://www.amazon.com/Crucial-PC4-17...&keywords=ddr4
    http://www.amazon.com/Crucial-PC4-17...&keywords=ddr4


    Crucial seems to be the only Brand who's manufacturing Normal DDR4 RAMs for now. All other brands only have premium models and 2x/4x kits thats why the price seems so premium.
    Last edited by Shawon191; December 21st, 2014 at 13:14.

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    Binary Logic er G.Skill er price o to reasonable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sybaris Ceaser View Post
    Binary Logic er G.Skill er price o to reasonable.
    G skill DDR4 koto chai?

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    G.SKILL NT-S F4-2400C15Q-16GNT RAM DDR4 NT

    Price: BDT 6,000/-

    Product Description:
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    G.SKILL
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    Type
    288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM
    Capacity
    16GB (4 x 4GB)
    Speed
    DDR4 2400 (PC4-19200)
    Latency Timing
    15-15-15-35
    Multi-channel
    Quad Channel

    Features extreme performance DDR4 memory designed for gaming and PC enthusiasts. Highly screened ICs for maximum performance and reliability Optimized compatibility with Intel X99 system XMP 2.0 support for automatic overclocking in 1.2V ultra low voltage.

    http://binarylogic.com.bd/g-skill-nt...15q-16gnt-ram/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sybaris Ceaser View Post
    G.SKILL NT-S F4-2400C15Q-16GNT RAM DDR4 NT

    Price: BDT 6,000/-

    Product Description:
    Brand
    G.SKILL
    Series
    Value
    Model
    F4-2400C15Q-16GNT
    Type
    288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM
    Capacity
    16GB (4 x 4GB)
    Speed
    DDR4 2400 (PC4-19200)
    Latency Timing
    15-15-15-35
    Multi-channel
    Quad Channel

    Features extreme performance DDR4 memory designed for gaming and PC enthusiasts. Highly screened ICs for maximum performance and reliability Optimized compatibility with Intel X99 system XMP 2.0 support for automatic overclocking in 1.2V ultra low voltage.

    http://binarylogic.com.bd/g-skill-nt...15q-16gnt-ram/
    4GB single stick er price eita. Look carefully, 4GB x1. Lol.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by aaz_swapnil View Post
    My current system is now 6.5 years old. And as I plan to use a new system 5+ years and tend to go for major upgrades after 6-7 years, I had plan to go for an upgrade January 2015. Skylake was supposed to come out that time and everything was well untill Intel started delaying their 14nm process and now I am running out of patience.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	mt9lc3.jpg 
Views:	3266 
Size:	269.2 KB 
ID:	35276

    According to the above leaked image of intel's latest roadmap, I have 3 options now, 1. get a Devils Canyon (Haswell-K) now, 2. wait until around April-May and get either a Broadwell-K or a Skylake (Non-K) or wait indefinitely (probably untill end of 2015) for a Skylake-K.

    I believe waiting for a Broadwell-K insted of getting Devil's Canyon is pointless, as Intel only promises 3-4% IPC improvement for Broadwell. And over pure speculation and past observation on Sandy Bridge and Ivy Bridge I think Broadwell-K is going to be even less overclockable than Devil's Canyon.

    Now Skylake is a different thing. It might not have huge performance increases as well (I've heard speculations of single digit IPC improvements there too), bt there are too many changes coming, including mainstream DDR4. It's like the upgrade from Core 2 to Core i series (Nehalem). But it's still an indefinite amount of time for Skylake-K, and from some speculation, Intel might as well skip Skylake-K and go directly to Cannonlake-K from Broadwell-K.

    A note here, my previous upgrade was also the last gen of 45nm Core 2, just months before Nehalem came out. At first I regretted it, but it seems Core 2 has outlived Nehalem both in availibilty and usability. The real upgrade performancewise was Sandy Bridge.

    But my biggest concern is the Skylake's mainstream implementation of DDR4. If that happens, and suddenly DDR3 becomes obsolete and unavailable in the market, then getting a Haswell/Broadwell now and then trying to upgrade/replace/RMA memory in the future would be difficult. It's the same problem that happened with DDR2 for me, which forced me to change my motherboard to get DDR3 support. But with Intel's "Faizlami" with sockets since Nehalem that might be impossible too.

    TL;DR: Should I get a Devil's Canyon now, Wait 4-5 months for Broadwell-K or Wait even more for Skylake-K for a build that I can use for 5+ years?
    Just wait and see a Skylake from Sunrise Point. It will be really amazing.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by VANGUARD View Post
    4GB single stick er price eita. Look carefully, 4GB x1. Lol.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Just wait and see a Skylake from Sunrise Point. It will be really amazing.


    - - - Updated - - -

    My daddy once said: "If something's too good to be true, that's cause it is."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sybaris Ceaser View Post
    G.SKILL NT-S F4-2400C15Q-16GNT RAM DDR4 NT

    Price: BDT 6,000/-

    Product Description:
    Brand
    G.SKILL
    Series
    Value
    Model
    F4-2400C15Q-16GNT
    Type
    288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM
    Capacity
    16GB (4 x 4GB)
    Speed
    DDR4 2400 (PC4-19200)
    Latency Timing
    15-15-15-35
    Multi-channel
    Quad Channel

    Features extreme performance DDR4 memory designed for gaming and PC enthusiasts. Highly screened ICs for maximum performance and reliability Optimized compatibility with Intel X99 system XMP 2.0 support for automatic overclocking in 1.2V ultra low voltage.

    http://binarylogic.com.bd/g-skill-nt...15q-16gnt-ram/
    latency is too damn high

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    Latency will never be better than ddr3.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KING offspring View Post
    latency is too damn high
    Aim for 3000Mhz with CL 15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Badhon_raj View Post
    Honestly speaking, I never understood the point of "waiting for next release".
    By the time it is released, there will be another announcement. So what will you do? wait some more? and then some more? to eternity?
    Once in a while, there comes some waitings that yields better results than other waitings. But no one can predict future, thats true.

    Quote Originally Posted by minitt View Post
    few weeks ago i was thinking about upgrading my system too and were considering the same options as you have mentioned. Then i decided to hold my breath a lil longer. I have a i5 750 clocked at 4.0ghz (1st gen nehalem).To me, upgrading to 4790K didn't seem very efficient. Too expensive for too little performance increase.
    But a 4790K will surely improve your minimum fps to a good extent. But one of the precondition of getting a 4790K would be having a decent GPU.

    In my case, im still bottlenecked by my 780 and surprisingly not by my really old cpu.My plan is to wait till brodwell gets released and then get the 4790K. By then its' price will fall a bit and provide a better bang for the buck.

    My guess is Brodwell will be 10% better than 4790K at best.

    If i was in ur shoe i would've gone for 4790K and a decent OC frindly full ATX MB.
    Broadwell mobile versions are out, and they have only 3% IPC performance improvement. And intel even said most improvement for broadwell would be on mobile sector and power consumption. I'm just sceptic about waiting and then ending up getting 3-4% performance increase while loosing overclocking headroom. But I like your idea of getting 4790K after price drop.

    My current draft of the build has a 4790K and Asus Sabertooth Z97 or Maximus VII Hero in it. I'm bit confused between the two. Also, my GPU upgrade will be later, with a seperate budget. I think by getting an overkill CPU I can later upgrade GPUs multiple times without being bottlenecked by CPU. Also I do need to use some CPU intensive applications like Solidworks, Ansys and Fluent.

    Quote Originally Posted by shawon0418 View Post
    Yeah mid-2015 will be great time to upgrade, I think at that point DDR3 and DDR4 ram will have roughly same price. And I heard intel might release some broadwell i5 models without IGP, and others with Iris pro, so it should be cost efficient for those who don't want useless IGP. I'm also looking to upgrade in Q3 '15.
    Waiting for Q3 or at least Q2 would be possible. But I'm running out of patience. My current PC is now nothing more than a web browsing movie watching machine, that even lags if I try to watch an uncompressed 3D blu-ray. But also, by the time I upgraded from my Pentium III (after 7.2 years) it couldn't even play DVD Videos without stuttering.

    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
    i dont think broadwell K will bring even 10% improvement since originally broadwell was not supposed to have desktop versions.

    I also think Skylake K will be delayed till 2016.

    i dont blame him since many people are actually waiting for Skylake. But by the looks of it, Skylake unlocked versions might be delayed till 2016 and even then, the performance improvements might not be worthwhile.

    The thing is we are not cpu bound anymore like we used to be. Also there is no further scope of big cpu performance increase with current silicons.
    Quote Originally Posted by VANGUARD View Post
    Just wait and see a Skylake from Sunrise Point. It will be really amazing.
    When I first read the anouncements about skylake I was really excited. It would really be interesting platform wise even if not performance wise. But waiting for 2016 would be too much for my already runnig out patience. And I'm even suspecting intel will never release Skylake-K at all. Skylake-S will co-exist with Broadwell-K and then both will be replaced by Cannonlake-S and Cannonlake-K at mid or late 2016.

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    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
    i dont blame him since many people are actually waiting for Skylake. But by the looks of it, Skylake unlocked versions might be delayed till 2016 and even then, the performance improvements might not be worthwhile.

    The thing is we are not cpu bound anymore like we used to be. Also there is no further scope of big cpu performance increase with current silicons.
    Yes, that.
    That's why I don't think waiting is worthwhile, for now.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by aaz_swapnil View Post
    Once in a while, there comes some waitings that yields better results than other waitings. But no one can predict future, thats true.
    yes that's true, but there wasn't any major performance increase in last few generations.
    So unless there's major architectural change, I don't think you'll be have significant improvement by waiting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shawon0418 View Post
    Price is already close
    http://www.amazon.com/Crucial-PC4-17...&keywords=ddr4
    http://www.amazon.com/Crucial-PC4-17...&keywords=ddr4


    Crucial seems to be the only Brand who's manufacturing Normal DDR4 RAMs for now. All other brands only have premium models and 2x/4x kits thats why the price seems so premium.
    how come it is close?

    4GBx2 costs $109. And this is just value version.

    And value version of ddr3 costs around $70. And you can easily find them around $60 during sales.

    http://www.amazon.com/Crucial-PC3-12...b+ddr3+crucial

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by minitt View Post
    few weeks ago i was thinking about upgrading my system too and were considering the same options as you have mentioned. Then i decided to hold my breath a lil longer. I have a i5 750 clocked at 4.0ghz (1st gen nehalem).To me, upgrading to 4790K didn't seem very efficient. Too expensive for too little performance increase.
    But a 4790K will surely improve your minimum fps to a good extent. But one of the precondition of getting a 4790K would be having a decent GPU.

    In my case, im still bottlenecked by my 780 and surprisingly not by my really old cpu.My plan is to wait till brodwell gets released and then get the 4790K. By then its' price will fall a bit and provide a better bang for the buck.

    My guess is Brodwell will be 10% better than 4790K at best.

    If i was in ur shoe i would've gone for 4790K and a decent OC frindly full ATX MB.
    tor akdomi lagbe na. I think you can wait till Intel skylake or cannonlake.

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    I have a new idea. What if I buy a new case and decent AIO watercooler and OC my current Core 2 Duo to 4GHz? I think this chip can go up to 3.8 GHz without even touching the voltage. I think if I can get decent performance out of this with a water cooler I can try waiting for at least a conclusive news on Skylake-K. And when I finally upgrade I can still use the cooler on new build.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aaz_swapnil View Post
    I have a new idea. What if I buy a new case and decent AIO watercooler and OC my current Core 2 Duo to 4GHz? I think this chip can go up to 3.8 GHz without even touching the voltage. I think if I can get decent performance out of this with a water cooler I can try waiting for at least a conclusive news on Skylake-K. And when I finally upgrade I can still use the cooler on new build.
    forgot to add since you are concerned about ddr4 memory issue regarding skylake.

    Skylake will support both ddr4 and dd3. So motherboard manufacturers can either opt for ddr4 or ddr3 support in their respective versions. I think they might release 2 versions for each motherboard series, one with ddr3 and another with ddr4 support. After skylake, intel is gonna full support with dd4 in cannonlake.

    If you want to, i think best thing is to invest in ddr3 12 to 16gb memory with current cpus or if you go with skylake. Pretty much sure you dont need to upgrade up from 16gb for at least 5 to 7 years. The thing is it is already mentioned by some one else here that ddr4 optimal speeds will be from 3000mhz. Right now with current timings and speeds around 2000mhz, they are actually slower than ddr3 1866 or 2100 mhz with 9 to 11 timings. So you will have to pay more for ddr4 and get worse performance. This is why I dont like ddr4 and I think it will take a few years for prices to adjust properly.

    Another issue with skylake which personally disappointed me is that it is going to be the same 4 core and 8 threads cpu just like we have with core i5 and core i7 right now and so Skylake looks very unappealing to me. I thought they will bring 6 cores to mainstream with skylake but it seems it is going to be cannonlake.

    I would suggest you to wait one more year and see what happens. Although I am thinking Skylake K will be delayed till 2016 since the chart you shared in first post also misses Skylake K, so right now, it is out of roadmap. And since we have just 1 more year, I dont think Intel is releasing it since they would have said it by now. They are only gonna release the locked Skylake cpus and wait till 2016 since they have to sell broadwell K and if you bring Skylake K at the same time as 2015, no body is going to buy broadwell K and honestly AMD is also out of competition and Intel has no competitive pressure to bring out major cpu advances.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aaz_swapnil View Post
    I have a new idea. What if I buy a new case and decent AIO watercooler and OC my current Core 2 Duo to 4GHz? I think this chip can go up to 3.8 GHz without even touching the voltage. I think if I can get decent performance out of this with a water cooler I can try waiting for at least a conclusive news on Skylake-K. And when I finally upgrade I can still use the cooler on new build.
    Better buy a second hand Core 2 Quad.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
    how come it is close?

    4GBx2 costs $109. And this is just value version.

    And value version of ddr3 costs around $70. And you can easily find them around $60 during sales.

    http://www.amazon.com/Crucial-PC3-12...b+ddr3+crucial
    Overall price is only 25-35% higher, mostly because only one company is providing normal sticks for now. As soon as cheaper processors with ddr4 supports are released, more brands will start making normal sticks and price will drop.

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