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Thread: ups that you should avoid (non sine wave)

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    Default ups that you should avoid (non sine wave)

    Recently I discovered that non sine wave ( square wave / quasi-square wave) ups's can damage PC components like PSU, monitor etc on long run. I was totally unaware of this and don't know how many people knows about it. So I'm requesting experts to shade some light on this issue also some suggested sine wave ups which are available in bd.

    Also, I'm requesting thread Admins to make this sticky.
    "Down here in the atmosphere
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    :o .

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    mane? kisu bujhlam nah

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    I know that sine wave is better than square wave. But it is not as harmful to the switching mode power supply method used in PSU and monitors as it is to transformer based power supplies. But still, with square wave the capacitors needs to filter a lot of noise, and if they are not up to the job the internal components recieve that noise and behave erratic. It is especially noticeable in audio output. But square wave doesn't do much permanent harm to computers compared to what it does to inductive loads like transformers and electric motors.

    But if the inverter in the UPS cannot handle overshoot properly, that is a different case. It can easily fry capacitors during load change.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkMan View Post
    Recently I discovered that non sine wave ( square wave / quasi-square wave) ups's can damage PC components like PSU, monitor etc on long run. I was totally unaware of this and don't know how many people knows about it. So I'm requesting experts to shade some light on this issue also some suggested sine wave ups which are available in bd.

    Also, I'm requesting thread Admins to make this sticky.
    PSU,monitors and othe pc components are designed to run on modified sine wave without problems. only components that use AC motors like refrigerator,compressor,microwave etc may face problems running on simulated wave. although some ancient active-pfc psu used to create problem too......
    and all the cheap line-interactive ups available in bd provide modified sine wave in battery/inverter mode. if u want pure sine-wave then u need to spent 20/30k for a online ups. i don't think there is any pure sine-wave
    line-interactive ups available in bd .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain_Charisma View Post
    mane? kisu bujhlam nah
    AC signal voltage change hoy... same voltage thake na... 2volt jemon hoy -2v o hoy. sine wave bolte ei waveform ta hoy nodir dheu er moto, 1 volt thakle eta ektu por 1/root 2 hobe... erpor 1/2 hobe erpor root3/2 hobe er por 0 hoye abar erokom kore -1 e jabe....
    ar square wave holo kisukkhon 2v thakle dhoom kore -2v hoye jawa.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sine_wave
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Square_wave
    http://www.panelectron.hu/webshop/im...d_sinewave.jpg

    - - - Updated - - -

    noob question- which wave produce more power? or they should be generating same power if v and I are constant?

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    Well what i know is when ac voltage enters the psu or monitor adapter its directly converted into dc through bridge rectifier, so i don't think you should worry much about it, rather high frequency noises could be larger pain in the ¤¤¤ if ur machine can't suppress it.

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    Yes thats true! Practical Experience!! Two PSU of one of my friend was burned due to ups. this was happening when electricity had just gone or just arrived. Now he is fine without UPS. A Good Stabilizer with a better surge protector can be used instead of an ups

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost Riley View Post
    Yes thats true! Practical Experience!! Two PSU of one of my friend was burned due to ups. this was happening when electricity had just gone or just arrived. Now he is fine without UPS. A Good Stabilizer with a better surge protector can be used instead of an ups
    So u think getting rid of ups is the only solution? i must say u r misinformed

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    Quote Originally Posted by redwan hasan View Post
    So u think getting rid of ups is the only solution? i must say u r misinformed
    sine wave ups

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    Who are these sine wave UPS?
    I mean whch brands?

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    Quote Originally Posted by REVx View Post
    Who are these sine wave UPS?
    I mean whch brands?
    all double conversion online ups puts out the best quality pure sine wave regardless of brands. All smart series line interactive ups from apc outputs pure sine wave. Cyberpower also makes line int sine wave ups.

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    Quote Originally Posted by minitt View Post
    all double conversion online ups puts out the best quality pure sine wave regardless of brands. All smart series line interactive ups from apc outputs pure sine wave. Cyberpower also makes line int sine wave ups.
    I think he meant IN Bangladesh, since you know... he's IN bd. surprising i know, but true.

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    APC to onek daam hobey.
    And I think Flora sells it - notorious for bad customer service. O let me correct tht - what customer service?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost Riley View Post
    sine wave ups
    I have never seen a non sine wave ups in bd's market, ur friend might have imported that :S

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    Quote Originally Posted by redwan hasan View Post
    I have never seen a non sine wave ups in bd's market, ur friend might have imported that :S
    Have u tested all the ups of BD market that they are sine weave or non sine weave??? there is a quite difference between theoretical and practical content.Cheap inverters in ups make square wave / quasi-square wave. Avoid them at all costs for PC/sensitive equipment unless u have a PC power supply that is able to cope with higher input harmonic content. Do Goggling for more details
    Last edited by Ghost Riley; October 17th, 2014 at 15:01.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost Riley View Post
    Have u tested all the ups of BD market that they are sine weave or non sine weave??? there is a quite difference between theoretical an practical.Cheap inverters in ups make square wave / quasi-square wave. Avoid them at all costs for PC/sensitive equipment unless u have a PC power supply that is able to cope with higher input harmonic content. Do Goggling for more details
    I have tested 4 major brands, i didn't find any square or sawtooth or anything, im not saying they are perfectly sine wave but they are good enough, and they are cheap too. Even the inverter that i made could deliver almost pure sine wave so i think its safe to say that most common brands will be safe enuf for using.

    So you have just said the same thing that ive said earlier and ask me to google it wow
    Last edited by redwan hasan; October 18th, 2014 at 00:12.

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    Quote Originally Posted by redwan hasan View Post
    I have tested 4 major brands, i didn't find any square or sawtooth or anything, im not saying they are perfectly square wave but they are good enough, and they are cheap too. Even the inverter that i made could deliver almost pure sine wave so i think its safe to say that most common brands will be safe enuf for using.

    So you have just said the same thing that ive said earlier and ask me to google it wow
    didnt notice ur previous comment. There are a lot of crap local brand of UPS in the market.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost Riley View Post
    didnt notice ur previous comment. There are a lot of crap local brand of UPS in the market.
    I have personally tested rahim afroose, mercury, power guard and apollo. All of them are safe to use.

    One more thing thermaltake power supplies are better than corsair when it comes to harmonic noise suppression. Although adding proper amount of capacitance helps lowering the noise but unfortunately im still trying to fully suppress it, not successful yet -_-

    Anyway its always good to avoid crap stuffs.
    Last edited by redwan hasan; October 18th, 2014 at 00:16.

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    Let me chime in again. Pure sine wave inverters that can pull loads above 400-500 watts are costly. So the possibility of cheap and medium range UPSes having pure sine wave inverter is very very low. Best you can get is quasi sine wave.

    Square wave is not harmful for Switching Mode Power Supply in any way. Just let me briefly explain how SMPS lowers the voltage with my limited knowledge:
    The AC voltages with RMS 220v enters and directly converted to DC with a diode rectifier. That is the only place where some difference is made by Square and Sine Wave, and the difference is the output DC voltage of the rectifier. I can't remember which one, but one gives slightly higher voltage then the other one. That's it, the AC waveform of the source is lost here and all it's effects.
    Then, the DC voltage is converted to a high frequency unipolar (0v - +300v instead of bipolar -220v - +220v) square wave by the SMPS itself. That square wave is passed through a transformer to lower the voltage, then rectified and filtered again with some capacitors to a smooth dc voltage again.

    If anything from UPS that kills SMPS, it's the lack of protection from overshoot caused by the voltage control feedback system of the inverter when it turns on. Trust me, I've lost two monitors to a Rahimafrooz UPS on same week.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by redwan hasan View Post
    I have tested 4 major brands, i didn't find any square or sawtooth or anything, im not saying they are perfectly square wave but they are good enough, and they are cheap too. Even the inverter that i made could deliver almost pure sine wave so i think its safe to say that most common brands will be safe enuf for using.

    So you have just said the same thing that ive said earlier and ask me to google it wow
    Did you mean sine wave?

    I also used to think most UPSes in BD market give sine wave or very close to sine wave and most IPSes gives Square wave (by hearing how the noise of the ceiling fans change). But after recent event I'm in search for a oscilloscope.

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